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Serenity now!
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Armed Good Samaritans Come To Aid Of Police Officer Injured In Shootout

It was nice to see armed citizens stepping in to help.

quote:
The Reno Police Department released dramatic bodycam footage Sunday of a Jan. 8 shootout at an apartment complex off Fourth Street that left a suspect and officer wounded and another suspect dead.


Lots of bodycam videos at the link:
https://breaking911.com/watch-...injured-in-shootout/

Critical incident briefing w/bodycam videos



Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice - pull down your pants and slide on the ice.
ʘ ͜ʖ ʘ
 
Posts: 4869 | Location: Highland, UT | Registered: September 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
hello darkness
my old friend
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Nice that citizens got involved. God bless em!
 
Posts: 7549 | Location: West Jordan, Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can't believe neither one of these guys had a tourniquet. Hell, I carry a tourniquet and I'm an old, retired guy. These guys run toward the gunfire for a living.


____________
Pace
 
Posts: 186 | Location: in the PA woods | Registered: March 11, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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Exactly! I'm glad the Sergeant is okay, but in 2023, there's zero excuse for a PD of Reno's size not to provide all of its officers with tourniquets, and have them carry them on their person. Top-tier TQs are inexpensive at $30 or less (especially when purchased in bulk for an entire agency), easy to learn, lightweight, and compact. You don't even necessarily have to mount them on your belt; you can literally shove them in a pocket until needed.

Even if Reno PD doesn't issue them, these officers should be buying their own. <$30 is stupidly cheap for a simple lifesaving tool that has a strong likelihood of being needed for yourself or another at some point in your career.

Uncontrolled bleeding from an extremity is a common cause of shooting deaths, but is entirely preventable with an inexpensive TQ and a quick training course.

The fact is, tourniquet use has become the go-to standard for any moderately to heavily bleeding wound to an extremity. In the olden days, you'd try direct pressure first, and only if that didn't work would you consider attempting a TQ as a last resort. Nowadays, if there's a traumatic injury to a limb, you get a TQ on that thing right off the bat. Even if it turns out not to have been 100% needed, it won't cause any long term issues, and it's better than being too conservative and them bleeding to death.

(The old wives' tale about TQ use assuredly leading to amputation has been resoundingly disproven in the past two decades of extensive battlefield TQ experience, which led to this "TQ first" switch in medical procedures and the widespread acceptance and issue of TQs for military and law enforcement.)
 
Posts: 30346 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I personally know several guys who are cops with much larger cities than Reno and they all carry a TQ some 2.

In the last few years I’ve seen a few stories like this and I’m always curious about non LE CCW holders that get involved with shooting at bad guys. While insanely brave and honorable to insert themselves where they are not required to, what kind of legal liability are they exposing themselves to ? The city has a bottomless checkbook for lawyers, average Joe CCW does not.
 
Posts: 4286 | Location: Florida Panhandle  | Registered: November 23, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How long can a TQ stay on, before the person is transported to a hospital?


-c1steve
 
Posts: 3828 | Location: West coast | Registered: March 31, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
is circumspective
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quote:
Originally posted by c1steve:
How long can a TQ stay on, before the person is transported to a hospital?


Two hours according to a number of Google searches.

I'd have guessed a shorter time than that.



"We're all travelers in this world. From the sweet grass to the packing house. Birth 'til death. We travel between the eternities."
 
Posts: 5302 | Location: Las Vegas, NV. | Registered: May 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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quote:
Originally posted by c1steve:
How long can a TQ stay on, before the person is transported to a hospital?


Without long term damage? 2+ hours. ~4-6 hours at the upper limit, but there are examples of TQs that were on for even longer without any long term effects.

In a law enforcement scenario, 2 hours is generally way longer than necessary to finish securing the scene, evacuate the wounded to a hospital, and get them into emergency surgery to fix the bleed and then remove the TQ.

And even in less common situations where it's going to be many hours before they can get to a hospital, leave the daggum TQ in place. Having some long term muscle or nerve damage, or even the worst case scenario of eventually losing a limb to amputation, because it took 6+ hours to get you into surgery is way better than bleeding to death in a couple minutes. Life over limb.
 
Posts: 30346 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
In the yahd, not too
fah from the cah
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quote:
Originally posted by c1steve:
How long can a TQ stay on, before the person is transported to a hospital?


~1-2 hours is standard practice. But it likely won't cause permanent harm before 4-6 hours.




 
Posts: 6149 | Location: Just outside of Boston | Registered: March 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Exactly! I'm glad the Sergeant is okay, but in 2023, there's zero excuse for a PD of Reno's size not to provide all of its officers with tourniquets, and have them carry them on their person. Top-tier TQs are inexpensive at $30 or less (especially when purchased in bulk for an entire agency), easy to learn, lightweight, and compact. You don't even necessarily have to mount them on your belt; you can literally shove them in a pocket until needed.

Even if Reno PD doesn't issue them, these officers should be buying their own. <$30 is stupidly cheap for a simple lifesaving tool that has a strong likelihood of being needed for yourself or another at some point in your career.

As we all know, not all cops are the same. Some are gun guys, some are procedural-types, some are better at PR, some are better at domestic issues....
Unless a department makes carrying a TQ a requirement, with all the things on their duty-belt, most cops aren't going to carry it...hell, there's some that'd rather not carry their pistol because of weight. Roll Eyes The other hurdle is the medical world, where there's still resistance to the use of TQ's despite 20-years of warfare resulting in the re-writing of trauma treatment.
 
Posts: 13235 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
We Are...MARSHALL
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Depending upon the location of the tourniquet and the application 4-6 hours is typical before significant long term injury occurs. The old adage life before limb comes into play as well. Please note properly applied tourniquets are typically painful given the amount of pressure applied to the proximal nerves. Also bleeding can still occur distal from a properly applied tourniquet when there is injury to the bone. In that instance direct pressure needs to be applied to the wound to reduce the bone bleeding as much as possible. In a perfect world the time is noted when the tourniquet is applied so we know what additional steps will be required in the treatment. Every scenario is different but hemorrhage control is paramount.


Build a man a fire and keep him warm for a night, set a man on fire and keep him warm the rest of his life.
 
Posts: 1879 | Location: WV | Registered: December 15, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We were taught back in the 60s to release them every 15 minuets, is that out now?



Banned from 3 forums... for abuse of ellipses... and improper use of apostrophe's
 
Posts: 3863 | Location: Middle Tennessee | Registered: February 07, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Step by step walk the thousand mile road
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quote:
Originally posted by cparktd:
We were taught back in the 60s to release them every 15 minuets, is that out now?


Yes.

Put the TQ on, as high up the limb as possible, crank that mother so tight the patient stops being aware of anything other than the pain of you tightening it, and leave it alone.

Yes, a bit of hyperbole, but that was basically the message of the instructor.





Nice is overrated

"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
 
Posts: 30380 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As high on the limb as possible? Can you be more specific, I would think a calf injury would go just above the knee.


-c1steve
 
Posts: 3828 | Location: West coast | Registered: March 31, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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The simple answer, for those with just basic training, is you apply it as high as possible on the affected limb. This is the best universal solution that requires the least amount of training and doesn't require an in-depth assessment of the source of the bleeding other than noting which specific limb is bleeding severely, while also providing an ideal location for cutting off the blood flow to that limb.

Cops are not doctors/medics, so we teach cops to "go high or die", since it's fast to apply, simple to teach, and easy to remember in a stressful situation. Same applies to most civilian trauma first aid classes.

On arms, "as high as possible" means as high into the armpit as possible while still keeping the TQ band perpendicular to the arm (i.e. not diagonally or vertically up over the curve of the shoulder).

On legs, "as high as possible" means as high into the groin as possible while keeping it perpendicular to the leg (i.e. not diagonally up over the hip).

See below illustration.

But the more advanced answer involves identifying the source of the life-threatening bleed and placing the TQ no less than 2-3 inches above the bleed, but not on a joint, and preferably in an area where there's just one bone (like the upper arm or thigh) as opposed to two bones with a gap between to compress (like the forearm or shin). That requires additional time, and additional training, and additional things to remember, and also often requires removing clothing to get a better view of the limb to identify the exact location.

(So you can see why it's harder to get "go high, period" wrong but it's easier to get "well, it depends on..." wrong.)

 
Posts: 30346 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
If you see me running
try to keep up
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If that happened near me you’d bet I’d be out there armed up and with my trauma bag. I’m sure there would be a few neighbors out too. But, where I live it would have been flooded with police in 1-2 minutes. We have a great city police department.

Good for those people stepping in to help.
 
Posts: 3800 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bolt Thrower
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Last November I used a CAT to control a strong vein bleed that wouldn’t stop with a pressure bandage and me clamping down on it with all my strength. It was on about an hour until treatment at an emergency room. Only problem was blisters from getting pinched when tightening. I’m surprised that all cops don’t get stop the bleed training, tourniquet and quickclot gauze.
 
Posts: 9660 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It’s great to hear the officer is going to be Ok.

Pistol vs AR he did good to make it out.

I wonder if the shots on target were all from his backup with the AR or if he got any hits?

Really cool to see people willing to help.

The AR officer (to me) did a great job of directing people and especially telling dipatch there were good guys with guns on the scene. He realy kept his cool and again (to me) is well trained.

When he yelled “I’m coming to you Sarge” it sounded like a line from a bad azz action flick.

Thanks for posting this.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Underdog,
 
Posts: 472 | Location: St. Augustine, FL | Registered: April 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Step by step walk the thousand mile road
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The officer with the AR-15 sure sounded “Army” (“I’m coming to you…”) to my ear. No matter, he is well trained and kept his act together under highly adverse conditions. He also was intelligent enough to accept assistance from armed citizens, several of whom sure acted like former military or extremely well-trained average people.

Does anyone know why these two schmucks decided a gun battle with the police was a good idea?





Nice is overrated

"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
 
Posts: 30380 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I realize the officer was involved in the fight but trying to get an improvised tourniquet with the rifle sling hanging in front of the camera, could that have been used if removed?
 
Posts: 3092 | Location: God Awful New York | Registered: July 01, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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