Well, to start off, I think you will need quite a bit more than 5lbs of winter rye. You generally put 4 gallons of water for every lb of grain to cook the mash. So 5lbs of rye will generate about 21 gallons of mash and part will evaporate (7%) which will leave about 19.5 gallons and the yeast will get it to about 4.5% (rye doesn't produce the same % of alcohol as corn or even wheat). That 19.5 gallons will yield about 17 gallons of beer, and that 4.5% beer when distilled will yield roughly 1.6 gallons of distillate. Remove the heads and the tails and you will have less than a gallon (7/10) of 100 proof. To barrel it, you will want it closer to 130 proof, so run it through again, and you get just under 1/2 gallon. Put it in a 2 liter barrel and wait 3 years and you will likely have about a third of a gallon (assuming no leaks). Then you will likely have roughly 40 ounces of hooch at 125 proof. Cut it down to 97 proof and you will have 52 ounces of rye, only to be pissed that it doesn't taste good.

fwiw - straight rye is still 5-7% barley.

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Originally posted by Strambo:

quote:

Originally posted by Deqlyn:
Waste of time honestly. After you make it rye sits in a barrel for 2+ years. Usually 4+. At that point it becomes not worth it. Any efforts to age it in smaller barrels turn it to crap because you cant replace time and the hooch going through the wood thru the seasons.

Not correct. Small barrels have way more surface area as a ratio to the liquid volume than the 53g gallon barrels used by the big distillers. Craft distillers are also doing it in all different climates. "Aging" is simply the liquor being drawn into and out of the wood due to temperature variations. The variables are barrel surface area and temp swings. The alcohol doesn't know how long it it sitting there. Great results can be had with smaller barrels in months. Years aren't needed unless you have a climate controlled warehouse and 53g barrels. I've tried a lot of craft spirits since I love craft beer and trying new things. I've noticed that at a similar price point ($29-$55 per 750ml), the craft whiskeys are right there with the big dogs and it is just a matter of preference.

http://www.deepsouthbarrels.co...ns/barrel-dimensions

I've never had an impressive whiskey that was aged in a smaller barrel for shorter, in conjunction with that idea. Personally, I believe it's simply a theory that has yet to be proven out, and doesn't currently look good, and I think the big distilleries have been doing such experiments all along, well before and more often than modern day craft distillers, and they (big distilleries) would be doing more of it themselves if it were a viable model to get equal or even similarly good product out of smaller barrels and shorter times vs big and long. I think it sort of works, but still comes out differently, and less good.

I concede the theory may get you close, like carobs sort of taste like chocolate when in trail mix, or - maybe - and I think it's a long maybe - you may somehow get the equivalent of 6yo worth of flavor out of 3yrs in a little barrel (or whatever), but I've yet to see/taste any proof of it, and not a single whiskey nerd friend of mine (a dozen or so) have either, IIRC. And after having been to, and tried whiskey from, a handful of craft distillers out west and at get togethers / informal and formal tastings, I haven't been very impressed yet, at all. Is it shit whiskey, no, of course not, but it's not the same thing, I believe, as do most whiskey enthusiasts. As much as I'm a science guy, there's still some unknowns (casually speaking: magic) about great whiskey, some hard to reproduce conditions in a lab, no different than certain wine grapes which are behind famous wines only doing well in certain climates.

Like, it may very well be that August breeze by that creek next to that NE corner of that particular warehouse in Kentucky which is behind why such-and-such expression always comes out better. It's hard to measure. And it's not yet been reproduced, much less easily or more quickly. And you can bet, with millions on the line and time frames of years and having to deal with projections that far out - the industry big dogs would be all over it if it worked...

Hard to prove either way, sadly. But that's my experience and take on it.

I do hope folks keep trying, though. A basement setup to make my own amazing Bourbon in a year or two vs twelve to twenty years would be a welcome change.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
I don't believe unaged white whisky is illegal. It is sold locally in liquor stores, one brand is Corn Liquor, the other is White Death.

Oh it's legal, in the normal model, made by regularly licensed distilleries and such.

It's just marked as what it is, whether literal White Dog from Buffalo Trace or whomever, or "Moonshine" (legally made, generally unaged, often flavored, generic spirits), etc.

Tito's Vodka is a recent-ish success story of a random guy getting into the spirits business and making unaged Vodka based on a Corn mash and doing quite well with it, or the "moonshine" trend with 88 versions of "Apple Pie" popping up everywhere.

And - legalities aside - successfully making unaged (or short aged) spirits in a small setup is fairly easy, whether Corn Likker, "Moonshine", "Apple Pie", or otherwise.

But doing it at home, even those cheap and simple spirits, even only in a 1gal still bought and owned legally - is still illegal Federally, and in most States (maybe all), in varying degrees from felony to misdemeanor to petty crime based on the state. Colorado doesn't seem to care much, IIRC - in small amounts for personal use - even if you got caught and no one told the feds, the state treats it as a petty crime like a parking ticket or some such, but that's just what I've read. The only people with stills I know are down South.

Making whiskey (good whiskey), however, is the hard(est) challenge of all, in the world of spirits. You can't even legally practice your skill or hone your recipe, even if your great great grandpa worked at some famous distillery in 1910 and scribbled down an idea in the family photo album, you need all the regular licensing and facilities they require to even try it once, legally speaking.

Fwiw - I have tried to age white dog in those small deep South barrels, and the end result tasted like ass. I used Buffalo Trace white dog (wheat mash) and used a 2L barrel. I tried it several times along the way, but it never got good. Part of it is the time it takes to get into and back out if the wood, thereby trapping the crappy tastes. That takes time to move in and out. A smaller barrel simply adds color faster, it doesn't filter it any better because it doesn't have the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
I don't believe unaged white whisky is illegal. It is sold locally in liquor stores, one brand is Corn Liquor, the other is White Death.

It's not at all if produced by a licensed distiller.

There are legislative efforts to make distilling legal. It was all outlawed since Prohibition. It took until the 70's for home brewing to be legalized.

Distilling is no less safe than home canning IMO which can also burn your house down, have a pressure canner blow or poison yourself. According to the "Clawhammer" site info, home distilling has been made legal in New Zealand and it has been a non-issue in terms of safety. Pretty easy not to get methanol poisoning....just toss the first runnings that smell and would taste awful anyway.

If this get legalized I'll probably give it a go, small still, store bought malt, and a small barrel would make for fairly quick and easy batches ready in a month or 2 of aging. Heck, I have sour beers that I age for 6 mo to a year!

quote:

Originally posted by 280nosler:
Fwiw - I have tried to age white dog in those small deep South barrels, and the end result tasted like ass. I used Buffalo Trace white dog (wheat mash) and used a 2L barrel. I tried it several times along the way, but it never got good. Part of it is the time it takes to get into and back out if the wood, thereby trapping the crappy tastes. That takes time to move in and out. A smaller barrel simply adds color faster, it doesn't filter it any better because it doesn't have the time.

Good to know, I appreciate the 1st hand feedback on those barrels. I may get one for my sour beers to try since I'm already invested in that hobby.

I have a used Balcones blue corn barrel use to age hard cider. After 3 months the effects were negligible, but at 5 months I could taste it. Gonna try 6+ months this year.

These can be had for about $100 used.

I hope it changes, too, I'd love to experiment.

Just getting enough White Dog (or younger aged whiskey) that is at a proof high enough to even start with an experiment (beyond very small scale) is very difficult and cost prohibitive. BT WD is priced as a novelty, and it's one of - maybe the - only available White Dog (to the public) that isn't watered down and is available at 60+ ABV. Buying 53gal of BT WD would be expensive (about $7000), and that's a long and expensive gamble in any case, where a bunch will evaporate over the years. It better come out amazing. IIRC, the 2015 Stagg was about 15yo, a couple of hundred barrels, some of which had but a gallon or two. Imagine spending $7000+ to start, waiting 10+ years, and getting out a whopping 5gal (maybe 24 bottles/2 full cases of 750ml bottles) of good but not otherworldly whiskey, at, basically, $300 raw cost each...

And extra-aging younger off the shelf whiskey is usually hampered by it having already been vatted and watered down to 80-90 proof. Even trying to start with, say, Wild Turkey Rare Breed wouldn't work well as its often between 100-120 when bottled, and as popular as Stagg is I'm all but certain BT wouldn't sell you a, say, 4yo barrel worth of it to play with, but it would be awesome if they would.

I'd like to buy young, barrel proof, quality whiskey, for cheap, in bulk, please...

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Originally posted by roarindan:
WOW This is amazing!! make all the beer/wine ya'll want but don't you dare make any whisky!!. anybody know why?

It is demon rum. They are protecting our morals.