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What is top posting? I don’t know if I’m guilty because I have never heard that term.

I don’t mind differing opinions in my threads as long as they are based on something besides internet horse shit. I have learned numerous things from discussions and disagreements. I just hate blanket repeating of internet hearsay without even the modicum of checking for accuracy. This forum is pretty good about that, others not so much.

I always say, it’s a discussion forum it isn’t an agreement forum. I also think it’s easy to come across as an asshole on the internet. The same thing said in person with all the other requisite cueing is just a good hearty discussion.
 
Posts: 7540 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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"Top-posting" (Aka: "Jeopardy-style" posting) is posting the response or answer before the thing to which one is responding.

Most people who top-post usually also unnecessarily full-quote.

I don't want to haul Mark's thread off-topic, so we should probably leave off this subject at this point. But, I did want to answer your question.
quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
What is top posting? I don’t know if I’m guilty because I have never heard that term.

I don’t mind differing opinions in my threads as long as they are based on something besides internet horse shit. I have learned numerous things from discussions and disagreements. I just hate blanket repeating if internet hearsay without even the modicum of checking for accuracy. This forum is pretty good about that, others not so much.

I always say, it’s a discussion forum it isn’t an agreement forum. I also think it’s easy to come across as an asshole on the internet. The same thing said in person with all the other requisite cueing is just a good hearty discussion.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26009 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Welcome?
No, not if it doesn’t contribute to the discussion.

If I’m looking for an opinion or other factual information, then I expect that someone may challenge something I or someone else said if it was open to reasonable challenge. I expect, however, that such challenges be expressed in a civil manner.

But all too often that’s not what gets posted.
First are the comments that are totally unrelated to the discussion. It’s as common as dirt here for someone to jump in with a reference that they believe is clever or funny that as a minimum clutters up the discussion, or worse takes things in a different unrelated direction.
I will say, though, that every time I see some juvenile or asinine “contribution” like that it teaches me something about my fellow gun owners that I wouldn’t have suspected otherwise. I guess I should be grateful for that.

The form of actual dissent that annoys me is a claim that something I personally know to be true is incorrect. If I say I saw a ghost or that Jesus appeared at the foot of my bed to admonish me about eating too much sugar, then I would expect someone to explain why I might be wrong. And especially if I presented my experience in the form of a question.

But if I say I personally witnessed some mundane, but objectively reasonable event or phenomenon, I don’t expect someone to say, “That’s impossible.” Ask for details or even point out why that would be unusual or perhaps objectively impossible, fine, but a dismissive “bullshit” with no other information than one’s own prejudices, and that’s not welcome.




6.4/93.6
 
Posts: 47429 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fourth line skater
Picture of goose5
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It's welcome in any thread I start.


_________________________
OH, Bonnie McMurray!
 
Posts: 7562 | Location: Pueblo, CO | Registered: July 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Three Generations
of Service
Picture of PHPaul
posted Hide Post
Dissenting views are what creates conversation. How boring would this place, and life in general, be if everyone agreed on everything.

As others have said, as long as it's an honest difference of opinion presented fairly and not just shit-stirring, then yes, bring it on. It's unlikely you'll change my mind, but it's a free country and you're entitled to your opinion.

EDIT:Pursuant to sigfreund's post, I recognize that I'm an inveterate wise-ass and have no doubt at times posted unhelpful things to a discussion just because I thought it was funny. My apologies to anyone I may have offended in the process.




Be careful when following the masses. Sometimes the M is silent.
 
Posts: 15289 | Location: Downeast Maine | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Although this quotation refers specifically to science, it’s equally applicable to countless other debates; not every debate, but certainly very many:

“[A]ll sides to a scientific debate over theory cannot be equal, unless they are all wrong.”
— Frank Salter, “Sociology as Alchemy,” Skeptic, Volume 4, Number 1, 1996, 50.




6.4/93.6
 
Posts: 47429 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get Off My Lawn
Picture of oddball
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quote:
Originally posted by goose5:
It's welcome in any thread I start.


Same.



"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
 
Posts: 16750 | Location: Texas | Registered: May 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
“[A]ll sides to a scientific debate over theory cannot be equal, unless they are all wrong.”
— Frank Salter, “Sociology as Alchemy,” Skeptic, Volume 4, Number 1, 1996, 50.
True, but, I think it rather misses the point? All sides may not be equal in the validity of their arguments, but, they may be equally of interest until the question is settled, no? Otherwise there'd be no point to debate?



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26009 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That is one of those cool sayings that sounds really smart until you start thinking about it. While true that only one theory can be the correct one, it ignores the fact that it is only a theory and without the discussion of other theories and facts you might as well be talking about changing lead into gold (see how I worked that in there lol?). The discussion is very important, anything else is an echo chamber. It is the whole idea behind review, question everything and consider other possibilities.

So unless you got a direct line to the big guy and he is supplying all the answers I prefer to let the discussion run its course.
 
Posts: 7540 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Salter’s comment isn’t about the scientific method per se and whether conflicting theories should be entertained and examined. Anyone who knows the least bit about how science is supposed to work should understand that’s not the point of his statement.

The obvious point is that even though we may in the spirit of just getting along accept the kindergarten admonition that Billy’s preference for blue crayons is just as “valid” as Sally’s preference for green crayons, ultimately when it comes to questions of fact rather than preferences, two conflicting ideas cannot both be true.

A simple recent and ongoing debate is whether the SARS-CoV-2 virus originally arose in nature and spread to humans from there via some route or whether it was originally developed in a laboratory and spread from there. If we discount meaningless quibbles such as the possibility that a lab worker caught it in a market, went to work, coughed on a Petrie dish, it survived there, then it infected another worker who went home and infected his wife, and it spread from there, the differences in possible origin, natural or manmade, are clear and only one is correct.

Another ongoing debate is whether the speed of light has changed over time. There are evidently reasons for both the yes and no theories, but only one can be correct.

It may never be possible to determine conclusively whether a China teapot is in orbit around the sun between Uranus and Neptune, but only one of the “Yes, there is,” or, “No, there isn’t,” theories can be correct—no matter how open-minded we may be and willing to accept that either theory could be correct until one is proved by some means.




6.4/93.6
 
Posts: 47429 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
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Absolutely it's welcome...I actually hope for it. That's the purpose of a discussion, to solicit outside experience and opinions in hope of broadening my understanding of a subject.

I don't want dogmatic opinion statements, I want to know the "why" behind why you believe what you do. It gives weight to your argument, and helps me decide if it's valid or not. Comments like "Brand A sucks, your an idiot if you buy Brand A" are not helpful. But "I bought Brand A's product, it fell apart after two days of use, and customer service told me to pound sand," is actually useful information from personal experience.

There are also situations where there may be no right answer, or the answer may vary based on context. Member KSGM and I have been recently conversing about backpack loadouts in the tactics and training subforum. We have two very different approaches and goals, but I appreciate hearing from his perspective because he brings up points that I hadn't considered on my own. At the end of the day, neither of us is going to end up with the same gear, and we shouldn't...but the discussion has made me consider some things about mine that I may need to address as I'd never thought about them before.

Finally, there are some things that are moral absolutes, and I'm not going to compromise on. They're not contextual, they're just right and wrong. I'll happily discuss those things and why I believe what I do if somebody asks, but I'm not inclined to wade into unsolicited arguments about them because if we already disagree we're not likely to change each other's minds.
 
Posts: 8726 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Power is nothing
without control
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Kinda hard to answer. I don’t tend to start threads where an answer could be considered dissent all that often. If I am starting a thread, it’s generally to ask a question or sometimes posting a bit of personal news. I’m not sure those are the sorts of things you could really dissent against. I do occasionally pitch a bitch, and I guess people could disagree with whatever I’m bitching about. In that case I don’t usually mind because I’m just venting and not really looking for anyone to agree or disagree with me. It’s more yelling into the storm.

I participate in discussions around here, but I don’t tend to start them. That said, if I did start a discussion, I would hope someone had a different opinion than mine, or it might risk being a boring discussion! I admit that I don’t react well to other folks telling me what to do, or insisting that an opinion is fact, but that isn’t really because they don’t agree with me.

- Bret
 
Posts: 2470 | Location: OH | Registered: March 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Dances With
Tornados
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Yes.

Thank you Mark for posting this topic, I'm really enjoying it, great food for thought.
.
 
Posts: 11874 | Registered: October 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Seeker of Clarity
Picture of r0gue
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quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
I’m just wondering where everyone’s mind is as I many times don’t know if a comment is unwelcome. ..... Do you block people or attempt to convince them of your position? .....


Do I block them? Nope. Do I sometimes roll my eyes. Yep. Do I tend to post rolling eyes? Nope. In general I'm probably about in the same camp as some others who've posted already. If it's not helpful, it's at a minimum boring, and perhaps even irritating. But if it's pertinent to the topic directly, it's always welcome.




 
Posts: 11403 | Registered: August 02, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Banned for
showing his ass
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If nine of us who get the same information arrived at the same conclusion, it’s the duty of the tenth man to disagree. No matter how improbable it may seem. The tenth man has to start thinking about the assumption that the other nine are wrong.

~Mossad Chief Jurgen Warmbrunn, World War Z

The Tenth Man Rule: How to Take Devil’s Advocacy to a New Level
 
Posts: 3190 | Location: PNW | Registered: November 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
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I don't mind being proven wrong, especially if it means that I learned something.


I pride myself on being able to admit when I'm wrong.



Now, dissent from someone coming from a person/position of ignorance just pisses me off.


Non-specific case in point. Someone trashing a particular product and then later admitting that they haven't ever even used that product, but they are just shilling for the product that they chose. Usually simply because they are seeking to validate their own decisions. That's maddening.
 
Posts: 14126 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If I had a dollar for every time someone that told me I was wrong ,
What I wrote was wrong , how I wrote it was wrong or I would be wrong very soon.

I'd buy the place and ban a half dozen malcontent dicks.

Not bad , I say given my time here and participation .

The first thing that I remember Para telling me is that inner net participation requires a thick skin.

To answer the question,
This place wouldn't have lasted two years with out the sharing of perspectives.

How often would you visit if every single person agreed with only one ideal ?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bendable,





Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.



Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
 
Posts: 54749 | Location: Henry County , Il | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
quote:
Is dissent welcome in your thread?
It depends. There are no hard and fast rules as to what is or is not welcome.

quote:
Do you block people or attempt to convince them of your position?
I don't block anyone. Sometimes certain comments will rub me the wrong way, but there's no one so obnoxious that I would consider blocking. On the rare occasions when there are, they have a way of getting weeded out, often by hoisting themselves on their own petard.
 
Posts: 28042 | Location: Johnson City, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
W07VH5
Picture of mark123
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OKCGene:
Yes.

Thank you Mark for posting this topic, I'm really enjoying it, great food for thought.
.

Right on.



I see some dissent not aimed toward the original post is occurring. Personally, I enjoy tangents in forum posts, maybe because I’m guilty of introducing them often. Sometimes a tangential thought doesn’t require a new thread.


Thanks for your comments, friends.
 
Posts: 45408 | Location: Pennsyltucky | Registered: December 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
posted Hide Post
If I start a thread because I have a question, then I'm looking for ideas that I don't have. Post away.

If I start a thread because I want to share something positive, then heck no. Keep you negative waves to yourself, man. I've done this and apologized for it a few times, so there's that.

If I start a thread for informational purposes, then I expect people to share their experiences, good or bad. For example, I started a thread about Culver's having fried walleye for Lent. I even apologized in the OP if others didn't have the same experience I did fully expecting that to happen. You don't like fish, you don't like walleye, you don't like the occasional bone in your fish, you don't like fried fish, you had a bad experience at Culver's, etc.; no problem, post away. On the other hand, you don't ever eat fast food places because... Nobody cares! Start your own thread and find out.

Off the wall comments are welcome in threads that I start. I could use a good laugh, we are not all Vulcans after all.
 
Posts: 11070 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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