quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I’m gonna go ahead and say on day one that this is another one we have no business getting involved in.

Agree 100%

Looks like the French have some splainin to do.

Three Dassaults got smoked.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
Are either side the good guys? The Indians are aligned with Russia; the pakis are untrustworthy islamists. Both have impulse control issues and any armed conflict will spiral out of control until nukes enter the chat. Once that genie is out of the bottle, I fear it will escalate exponentially.

India is buying Russia oil and gas because it is cheap now. Indians care more about reducing cost than politics. China is backing Pakistan because India is a competitor and antagonist to China.

And Pakistan harbored Bin Laden, AND they support terrorism, AND they help Iran with its nuclear program.

I'd have to go with India here, but then if they want assistance they would have to stop buying Russian oil and gas.

Asif said that if Pakistan's existence came under threat due to India's action, nobody would survive in the world. His remarks came amid high tensions between India and Pakistan.

https://www.news18.com/world/p...m-ws-kl-9325697.html

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
Are either side the good guys? The Indians are aligned with Russia; the pakis are untrustworthy islamists. Both have impulse control issues and any armed conflict will spiral out of control until nukes enter the chat. Once that genie is out of the bottle, I fear it will escalate exponentially.

India is buying Russia oil and gas because it is cheap now. Indians care more about reducing cost than politics. China is backing Pakistan because India is a competitor and antagonist to China.

And Pakistan harbored Bin Laden, AND they support terrorism, AND they help Iran with its nuclear program.

I'd have to go with India here, but then if they want assistance they would have to stop buying Russian oil and gas.

Honestly, I don’t trust either of them not to irradiate a vast amount of real estate… and that includes outside of their respective countries. Even more so, I don’t trust neighbor countries to keep out of it, specifically China. A shooting war of any kind between these two that have fanatical hatred for each other will spiral out of control quickly.

First tariffs and now a shortage of Gas station and Dairy Queen employees, better go get me a Peanut Buster Parfait while I still can.

Nothing frightens me more than “True Believers”!

Pakistan, a Muslim country by definition, definitely has an unusually skewed radical population of such.

India, on the other hand, does not have such a homogeneous society. It has a variety of religious, so not a homologous set of true believers, therefore not radicalized to the same extent as Pakistan.

That said, I am far more concerned about the Pakistan group initiating nuclear weapons.

Other thoughts welcome!!

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
Obviously no good will come of this, nukes or not.

Are you saying if the good guys shoot the bad guys, no good will come of it ? Please splain thyself..

Are either side the good guys? The Indians are aligned with Russia; the pakis are untrustworthy islamists. Both have impulse control issues and any armed conflict will spiral out of control until nukes enter the chat. Once that genie is out of the bottle, I fear it will escalate exponentially.

good point. maybe. that thought was based on working with Indian engineers for the last couple decades, they're pretty sharp, and none of them I believe are impulsive or would support a nuclear exchange for said skirmish. They would support some normal level of defensive retribution or maybe more in a conventional sense, but if the country's leadership comes from the same population of Indian engineers, I'd say they wouldn't even consider launching nukes for that type of incident. Just seems logical to me. And I've never met one that loved communism by any stretch.

As history—including through the past few years—has demonstrated very frequently, conflicts between any major or semimajor powers have a way of ultimately affecting the US as well. The misfortunes that prompt the Schadenfreude we feel because they seem to affect only people we don’t like for some reason have a way of spreading to the rest of us. And if a conflict involves a nuclear power who decides that their cause is righteous and/or desperate enough to release that genie out of the bottle, we literally won’t need any weathermen to learn which ways the winds blow.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
China is backing Pakistan because India is a competitor and antagonist to China...

You have to wonder how many strings China is pulling in the background. We're looking to get a lot more stuff from India - think pharmaceuticals for one - and become less reliant on China. And tariff talk already has China bubbling. Problems for India are win-win for the chicoms. I've heard about threats of an India/Pakistan nuclear exchange for many decades, more is at play this time around.

quote:

I wonder what the neighbors are thinking.

You’ll never guess.

Link

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The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan expresses concern over the escalating tensions between Pakistan and India, viewing further escalation as
not being in the interest of the region. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan reaffirms its belief that security and stability serve the collective interests of all countries in the region. Meanwhile, it urges both sides to exercise restraint and resolve their issues through dialogue
and diplomacy.

A complicating factor in a ground war is although India has a much larger army, 100 million followers of Islam reside in India, according to Styxhexenhammer666.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
Obviously no good will come of this, nukes or not.

Are you saying if the good guys shoot the bad guys, no good will come of it ? Please splain thyself..

Are either side the good guys? The Indians are aligned with Russia; the pakis are untrustworthy islamists. Both have impulse control issues and any armed conflict will spiral out of control until nukes enter the chat. Once that genie is out of the bottle, I fear it will escalate exponentially.

“Indians”? Please. That label is offensive. It’s a micro aggression. The acceptable term is Native South Asian.

*tounge firmly implanted in cheek*

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Originally posted by pbslinger:
A complicating factor in a ground war is although India has a much larger army, 100 million followers of Islam reside in India, according to Styxhexenhammer666.

Disseminated, aggressive cancer, all over the globe.

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Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
Are either side the good guys?

Well…only one makes iPhones.

Obligatory smartalec comment: Does that make them the good guys or the bad guys?

More serious comment: They are all people. I suspect that a majority in each country just wants to be left alone, live their lives, raise their families. As with China, I suspect that while most of us have little time for their government and their actions/approach to the rest of the world, if we spent much time with the people, we’d be unlikely to have much issue with them. For that matter, I suspect the same could be said about our own government and people. I know my first reaction to the 26 senators voting against the DOGE cuts to foreign aid was not to cheer.

I don’t want anything bad to happen to the people of either country, but the idea of a regime change that results in them having a government more like the ideal that our founders envisioned, that could be a good thing. The same could be said for our government, and it sure seems like PDJT is doing his best to accomplish that, but he faces the challenge that we have to hold onto legislative seats, even if that means keeping an imperfect legislator. It would be nice if all the R seats in the senate and the house were full blown MAGA seats, but that is not the reality that we and PDJT have to deal with…

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Looks like the French have some splainin to do.

Three Dassaults got smoked.

Reported Chinese PL-15E air to air missiles got them. The PL-15 is a premier air to air missile that out ranges the US AMRAAM. It appears to have lived up to the hype

quote:

Originally posted by mrw:

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Looks like the French have some splainin to do.

Three Dassaults got smoked.

Reported Chinese PL-15E air to air missiles got them. The PL-15 is a premier air to air missile that out ranges the US AMRAAM. It appears to have lived up to the hype

I'm hearing it was a huge dogfight between Indian Air Force French-built Dassault Rafales and Pakistan Air Force Chinese-built J-10C jets.

India-Pakistan: 125 Jets Clash in One of Largest Dogfights in Recent History

It was a BVR (Beyond Visual Range) engagement, not a dogfight.

More like opposing sides in a "spray and pray" machine gun fire into concealment than two "gunslingers" facing off.

I was wondering about that. What is the distances for modern dogfights?

I think it said something about firing air-air missiles at 160Km from each other - say 4min flight time? If so, that doesn't seem like it would be a very effective range.

I'd imagine using guns is much closer than that (but how much given these speeds? Guns used w/in 1Km? 5Km? 10km?). But what about missiles? 10Km? 50Km? 100Km?