I know violin bows have a concave curve looking at it from the side. But do bows have a curve to the left looking at it from the top? Or should it be straight?

I'm pretty sure my (used) bow could benefit from a re-hair. It looks synthetic (not horse) and somewhat slick despite rosin (both light and dark). Also, it's a bit threadbare, like hair is missing in certain areas. It doesn't really matter much since this is still my first month or so. But seems like I should plan to fix it. But if the bow is warped (curved to the left shouldn't be there), then perhaps I should just buy a new bow.

I'm having fun with the violin. Wish I could have started it 40 years ago.

Should be straight, or you'll develop a messed up bowing motion. Imagine trying to make a straight cut w/ saw or blade that deviates to the left or right.

thanks. That's what I was thinking - symmetrical. But there was some (ambiguous) mention of bows curving to the left as well. So, wasn't sure.

I'll go to the store this weekend to check out bows - maybe carbon, hybrid or cheap wood. Probably budget about $100-200 for one.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:
Should be straight, or you'll develop a messed up bowing motion.
<snip>

I know almost nothing about violin bows. But I know that the bow hair is in tension, so the hair will be straight even if the bow stick is slightly curved.

Average rehair is probably going to run $80+. Might just as well get a new bow. There are some carbon fiber ones that run about $200. Anything less might not be worth it.

Www.sharmusic.com

Www.fiddlershop.com

A serious bow shopper would have a budget of $18,000.

https://www.sharmusic.com/coll...essional-violin-bows

Please learn with the Suzuki method. Proven since 1965.

Regarding bow curvature, please remove hair tension every time you stop playing to put the instrument away.

I prefer carbon bow and violin for use at outdoor venues. Humidity is a wood killer. You may want a carbon bow just for simplicity and cost.

Carbon good, plastic bad. Cheap bows might look like carbon but aren't, so be sure what it really is.

A used carbon fiber bow will cost less than new, and you can likely sell it in the future for about what you paid for it (the store needs to make a bit of profit on the deal). If you trade in at the store you bought it from, whether a new or used bow, they should offer some decent trade in value. But you can't really sell one of the dirt cheap beginner bows. Those are lost money.

Thus the up front cost of a better bow is more, but down the road the long term cost may not be more. Ask the shop about their trade in policy. No matter how much you spend, there is always something better that costs more, so know your immediate and longer term budgets.

Thinking about the fiddlershop noir or the Holstein Pernambuco. $100-200. Or perhaps equivalent new or used if found locally.

Thanks, yes I relax the bow after I stop playing. Question: this tension seems like spring action. Tension / relax cycles weaken springs. If I play multiple times per day, is it better to relax after each session or just at the end of day?

My son's best friends mom is an accomplished violinist. She loaned my son her back up instrument during high school. His teacher was impressed with it.

She's going to a big Texas university when her sister calls her gushing about her getting her dream instrument. Her reaction was to pray to not be jealous of her sister. The next time home she goes to a barn sale and buys her dream instrument for $100. The bow was worth a thousand when she got it.

Horsehair on a bow is not like a metal spring, which in some cases can lose its ability to provide a force. (This is most often when a spring designer is an idiot, and doesn't remember his engineering design textbook.). However, horsehair does, over many weeks, tend to lengthen more and more, which causes the over tightening of the bow to achieve some playable tension. The bow must not be overly moved to be like an English longbow would be, to deal with the horsehair length. Maintain the proper physical geometry of the bow when it is tightened to the nominal playing tension of the horsehair. It should never be straight, always have a downward curvature, and have plenty of springiness left so you can adjust how the violin sounds during a typical song.

If the horsehair is too long, a luthier may be able to reposition the horsehair by adjusting its length. This is done skillfully in the bow tip anchor point. This can be good money after bad, though, if the horsehair is effectively unusable for other reasons. A rehair vs. a shortening requires much the same labor.

Wood or carbon or plastic is certainly the main creator of horsehair tension. The bow can, as already shared, work itself into a very bad curvature depending on temperature, humidity, and the horsehair + frog position. A wooden bow can perform for decades or more, without losing its ability to tension the horsehair.

Let's consider a typical home practice session to be 30 minutes. Break for lunch, walk the dog, and you think I'll just leave this here for now, as I am coming back soon. In my view, not a good plan. Always reduce bow tension, to avoid that "did I loosen my bow? panic" that I sometimes feel.

And, if you are ever in a small group, or orchestra, you'll be playing for a couple of hours straight. Tension will be there for those two hours. No problem. Pack up after eliminating tension on the bow.

As a point of arcane trivia, there are bows that are NOT adjustable, and have been designed to be in that archery bow position all the time. I have a modern bow like this for my Epoch electric violin, but prefer to use a carbon bow with adjustment.

Whenever transporting the instrument, never leave in a car of any temperature.

Got it. Thanks, this helps.

Definitely need to re-hair - confirmed by a player. So, need to decide to buy a new bow (one of the choices above) or just re-hair. The pad wrap is all unwound (wasn't sure how it was supposed to be) - maybe go for a new bow.

ETA: the violin was gifted to me but an unofficial, rough appraisal by a player, not an appraiser, is suggesting the value to be about $700-1200. That's how much the player thinks it would be worth / how much he would be willing to pay for for it. So, decent beginner / intermediate instrument it seems for me. Just need to fix the bow.

He said I may need to look at the bridge to see if I can make it a little better. Not sure what to look for in a bridge - maybe just take it to a repair shop (when I get the bow fixed) for their thoughts.

Curved bows were standard from roughly the Middle Ages to the early Baroque, just FYI. That’s likely where that info originated.

There are still some ensembles that specialize in early music who use period instruments with curved bows.

In fact, there are musicologists who advocate for historical performance practice when playing music from this time, so that the tapered sound on long notes emulate that of a curved bow.

Bridge is critically important. Must be in a single plane aka flat. Arch must match curvature of fingerboard. Bridge position on top plate must be chosen relative to the interior soundpost. String grooves must be properly spaced.

A replacement bridge by a true luthier with a soundpost evaluation and repositioning if required will set you back $120-150.

Also of importance is the tailpiece. A modern plastic unit with integral fine tuners may help you. If the wooden one is in good shape, you can add a fine tuner to the E string at least.

Shoulder rest and chin rest work together so you can properly hold the instrument. Your body dimensions and these two pieces must be well matched.

Remember that a chin rest is attached with a very small two screw clamp. The clamp can crush the violin body with excessive torque. Also the tiny rod used to rotate the twin clamp members must not pass through the cylinders or you will scratch the violin body.

A good tuner will help. One clamps onto the body with a tiny screen facing the player. Stand alone box tuners work fine.

Thanks. Just to make sure we're talking about the same curve, when looking at the bow from the side, the bow curves downward from the top / frog toward the hair in the middle of the bow. This is expected.

Are you saying that bows curve toward the left (from frog to tip) looking at the bow from the top (and the hair is below the wood of the bow)? This was typical up to the Baroque period? This seems like it would make the bow somewhat handed as well (made for right handed people).

If so, then that's good to know. Perhaps any curvature to my bow from center to left is intended, rather than warpage. I think I can make out a very faint marking of "MADE IN GERMANY" (in English) on the bow behind the frog. Consistent w/ the label inside the violin indicating made in germany.

I'm still torn between re-hair or buying a new bow (likely carbon since it sounds like better value). I'll ask the repair shop for their thoughts but they may have a conflict of interest (ie - encourage me to buy one of their bows - luthier in-house). It's a store that makes violins as well as repairs them.

Thanks 4mul8r. I learned about the bridge being flat (at least the side facing the fingerboard; other side may have a curvature to it?). Mine is facing the right direction. I also repositioned it as it was a little forward of the correct position. But I have no idea where it is relative to the sound post. Also had no idea of the arch curvature matching the fingerboard. Perhaps I can have both of those checked by the luthier. But I confirmed most of the other measurements for proper violin set up, correcting as needed.

I have a fine tuner on the E-string (came w/ the violin). Other things are just ball end. I'm just using a chin rest for now.

Be nice if the chin rest screws came with a torque limiter. I adjusted it but not sure if it's too tight or not. I did, unfortunately, make some tiny scratches on the body before I figure out what not to do.

I have a tuner / metronome that seems to be working well (Korg brand made in japan with an attachable mic). The pegs make it challenging to tune though.

The intentional curve is NOT as you describe. It is the opposite of what we use today's curve. Think of the intentional curve as an archery bow, pulled towards the archer, just getting started to put tension on the bowstring.

Any curvature viewed from the top is a defect.

The bridge should be flat (planar) on either side, if you think of the bridge as a big silver dollar...heads or tails, the coin lies flat.

Moving the bridge is not a good idea, if you have never done so. You must know what string tension to create to allow the bridge feet to move. If you mean you corrected only the tilt of the bridge, relative to the top plate, that is easier to do with strings under tension. Think of the bridge as one tower of the Golden Gate Bridge. That tower is vertical. So should a violin bridge be.

Tuning an old violin is best done with the violin on your seated lap. Loosen (lower the string pitch) a tuning peg first. This peg is likely dry, as is its corresponding hole, and not easy to turn. Always always always tune the string with increasing tension to its correct pitch, with the main peg. When pushing the peg into the scroll body, always always always always always push with your support hand opposite the peg push direction. Never push across the scroll body with your hand down on the main violin body. Fingerboard can snap off.

If bow and violin are German, you should probably both fix the bow properly, which could take a while in the luthier's shop and buy a new modern bow. Avoid buying the carbon fiber bow in blue with silver sparkling stars all over it. Plain black is fine.

Thanks for the tips!

I had already moved the bridge per setup guidelines but I kept string tension and moved the bridge gently by the feet. I think it's okay but will have the luthier check it out.

The soundpost is considerable rearward toward the tail; my impression is that it's supposed to be underneath the bridge. So, will have the luthier check it out. Violin sounds okay (to my untrained ear) and making the correct pitch per the tuner. But perhaps the sound could be made better. I am getting some weird resonance on the A string though. Perhaps the soundpost not ideally located.

Will try to have a luthier check out the soundpost, bridge and bow next week.

I had the violin and bow checked out by a local luthier - he only makes and repairs violins (not a general musical instrument store).

He said the violin was good, at least good enough to start learning on. The bridge and soundpost could use some care but he deferred that for now.

He recommended to just replace the bow. He didn't even suggest to re-hair.

The cheapest bow he had was about $250 (made in-house? Didn't see a brand on it). Said it was beginner+ level (something I could grow into).

The alternative is probably fiddlershop, perhaps either the wood bow for $200 or a carbon fiber bow for $100-150:

Made in <not USA??; only inspected by fiddlershop?>
https://fiddlershop.com/produc...ernambuco-violin-bow

Made in USA?
https://fiddlershop.com/produc...-x-series-bow-violin

Made in ???
https://fiddlershop.com/produc...bon-fiber-violin-bow

Made in ???
https://fiddlershop.com/produc...ber-weave-violin-bow

I know it's subjective and difficult to recommend something specifically here. But I could use some thoughts / recommendations on how to narrow down the choices. Like hands-on experiences with wood vs carbon in this price range (sounds like at this price, carbon is the way to go). Experience w/ fiddlershop as a vendor. Glasser X vs Holstein vs Jonpaul brands (I'm leaning toward Glasser as a made in USA product; others don't sound like made in USA or Europe).

The alternative which may not be bad other than price would be to buy the $250 wood bow from the local luthier. Or something else not mentioned in this post.

Again, any thoughts to help me decide is appreciated.

ETA: I'm leaning toward the Glasser X (carbon fiber, made in usa) or fiddlershop carbon bow (carbon fiber, nice price, generally good reviews) or local luthier wood bow ($250 but support local luthier assuming the bow is made in house and not some 3rd party).