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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Not by staring at the ground, you won't, and despite your reference to astrophysics, that is essentially what you're doing, with this stuff about being concerned with the here and now. As far as philosophy goes, I just don't see you having a genuine interest in the subject. If you think philosophers don't delve into religious texts, you're sadly mistaken. Those "made-up stories" are blueprints of the human psyche. Drugs? Getting stoned more often, as you say- well, have you read Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces? Look up 'elixir theft'. The elixir thief attempts to achieve enlightenment the easy way- via a magical elixir. That's where psychotropics will get you in your quest- nowhere. I'm not trying to beat up on you, but when I see this stuff about "made-up stories", it tells me a lot. It's very short-sighted. | |||
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| And this, too, shall pass away  |
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Spread the Disease |
I was referring to death. I also think you may be taking what I said too literally about the here and now. I didn’t mean that we shouldn’t discuss such things, ask questions, or delve deep into the topic. I’m just not a fan of spending so much effort in areas that have such unreliable benefit with an often heavy cost. I never meant to insinuate that philosophy and religion had no connection; they are often deeply intertwined with blurred boundaries. Reading almost any selection philosophical works will show anyone that. I agree on the blueprints metaphor. There are few other of humanity’s creations that give such an intimate look into the personality of a civilization. The pot reference was also a joke. Even so, I wouldn’t discount chemical assistance in this area. Human perception is dependent upon chemical reactions. There is much philosophy to be found lyrically that was created by less than sober artists. At least, not so much in modern crap music.  Sorry if this is derailing the OP. This could go along many tangents. ________________________________________ -- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. -- | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
I know what you meant, and it's yet another one of these cop-out statements from you, just like when you said: Such statements are calculated to let atheists off the hook. The inference to be made is that since we cannot know, we shouldn't even try, and that we'll only know the truth at our passing. Yeah, these are cop-outs: Don't bother trying, don't ask the questions. Just slog through life with no connection to the Universe except for your feet touching this rock. That ball of goo between our ears- it's designed for one purpose- to keep our bodies alive on this rock. It's an AM radio. You can't pick up FM signals with an AM radio, but what you can do is to receive information about the nature of FM radio signals over your AM radio, and thereby begin to divine things beyond the capacity of your receiver. It matters not that we cannot fully understand the nature of our existence, because we can glimpse enough of the truth of it to give us large clues as to that nature. But, you have to ask the questions, and when you say "I'm an atheist", you aren't asking the questions. Here, let me call upon the assistance of William Blake, who was infinitely more eloquent: “If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” "...till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” Get it? Use your AM radio to receive information about the nature of the FM signal, and then and only then may you glimpse the truth, which is that we are eternal. Atheists don't believe we are eternal. Atheists believe that we are merely sacks of meat living a meaningless existence. Which brings me back around to your statement that "we'll all get the answers some day whether they are the ones we want or not." Let's see: atheism = no God = no afterlife. By what you believe, you'll never have an answer. By what you believe, all that is going to happen to you is that when you die, it's lights out and that's the end. So, if what you believe is correct, you won't be around to receive an answer. You'll just be gone. Those who believe in an afterlife- they are the ones who may get to find out. So, when I say to you that you won't get your answers by staring at the ground, I am referring not only to you but to all those who are certain that there is no God, because no God means no afterlife and no afterlife means that you must get your answers in this life. Listen, when you say stuff like "We don't know how the universe came to be, or even if it's a valid question. We don't know how life began. We don't know A LOT. And I'm ok with that." - this is not the statement of a man asking the questions. And if anyone is taking things too literally, it is you. You look at- for example- the story of Adam and Eve in the garden and you scoff. But what you fail to realize is the meaning behind this allegory. Adam and Eve eating the apple and suddenly realizing that they are naked refers to Man's coming into consciousness- from paradise with God, to falling into the world of strife and pain. Chemical assistance with what? You're an atheist. Your lack of a belief system means that you believe life has no meaning. It's all just random. Everything was simply created out of nothing, and spontaneously so. Forgive me, but it's ridiculous. You don't need "chemical assistance" to ponder a nihilistic existence. | |||
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| I can't tell if I'm tired, or just lazy  |
I was brought up as a Catholic but left when I turned 18. I now consider myself a non-denominational Christian. I do not attend any church as I feel that the majority of demoninations that profess to be "Christian" are actually false-Christian. I acknowledge that other religions exist and that their religion is their means of filling the void in their search for God. I utilize several Bibles along with the Strong Concordance. Like Para, I have several books by Joseph Campbell. I have several books on science and while I don't profess to understand alot of it like quantum physics or string theory, it does give me a glimpse into the complexity of a creation which only God could have created. I believe that in the end, everyone, will know Jesus Christ and because God gave us free-will we will all have the opportunity to accept or reject Jesus Christ and be held responsible for our decision.This message has been edited. Last edited by: ggile, _____________________________ "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
Christian. I was raised Dutch Reformed, and I would still go to those services, but I am not comfortable at most churches. I will not attend/otherwise associate with a church which supports abortion. I cannot see any theological argument for that position, and have never been given such a defense, when requested. I do not accept a church which takes positions, without having a defense of it. However, I regularly go to some different Christian Men's Groups. IMO, most "denominationalism" is rooted in positions which are not grounded in Scripture - Its really only Catholic/Orthodox vs. Protestant that seem to have a real, meaningful split. I know "good people" who are of a variety of religions, but I reject their beliefs. It would be logically inconsistent to do otherwise. One cannot be Hindu without, by definition, rejecting Christ. One cannot be Christian, without, by definition, rejecting Muhammed, etc. As for Apologetics, and why to chose Christ, Ravi Zacharias and C.S. Lewis provide far better arguments than I ever could. I read a great deal of Chesterton, and Lewis, and various concordances, along with the KJV and NKJV. The Screwtape Letters was instrumental in me coming back to Christ. | |||
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Bad dog! |
I live my life in growing orbits that reach out over the things of the world. Perhaps I can never achieve the last but that will be my attempt. I am circling around God, the ancient Tower, and I have been circling for a thousand years. And I still don't know if I am a falcon, or a storm, or a great song. --Ranier Maria Rilke ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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| Eating elephants one bite at a time  |
I sincerely appreciate the responses. Right now I can't put the focus on responses that is needed. As soon as I can better focus and respond, I will. I look forward to learning more from each participant in the thread as well as each step on the journey. Thanks! | |||
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| Do---or do not. There is no try. |
I was surprised at my results, to say the least—-I grew up Catholic, became a United Methodist about 30 years ago, and the Belief-O-Matic says I should be an Orthodox Jew. Oy vey! | |||
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Exceptional Circumstances |
This may be one of the greatest posts I have ever read on this forum or any other. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ | |||
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You're on the right track. You're asking questions. Don't stop. Don't get discouraged. Who else? |
My plan was to dodge this thread entirely. I didn't care to potentially get in an argument with anyone over my personal beliefs that serve me well. I am Christian. Grew up Protestant. Baptist. Be good or be tortured and tormented for eternity. They showed us films about flying scorpions and dragons and erupting lava. Messed me up pretty bad. When asked, I tell people I am a recovering Baptist. I've studied all major religions. Picked up their texts and read them. Each has some good takeaways, but nothing that makes me an adherent. Reject them all except for the King James version of the Bible, imperfect as it is. It's good enough for me. As others have stated, I respect every person's right to worship (or not) as they choose. I will not force my beliefs on others, nor will I allow them to do so to me. Others who have never heard of Christianity or Jesus? Not just around the world, but prior to Jesus making the rounds? I asked that question in Sunday school as a child. I only remember an unsatisfactory or conflicting answer each time I asked. Pretty much they are damned if they do not accept Christ. I trust God has that covered otherwise. I am spiritual, not religious. I do not attend church. Too many agendas. I have prayed to Jesus to save me from demons - and he showed up. I have prayed to God in times of life and death and he has spoken to me. Twice. I have heard his voice. I have had the Holy Spirit take me during prayer and have known nothing better in my lifetime. I have learned a few things here that have solidified my belief set. I have studied everything from ancient aliens, to Darwinism, to multitudes of theories until my head was ready to explode. I learned I must keep it simple to fulfill my purpose. Day to day? First, there is no Hell. That is a concoction conjured by men. From that vantage point, I do not fear physical death. Only spiritual death. This embodiment is meant to die. Our spirits aren't. There was a war in the heavens. Lucifer and one third of the angels rebelled. God could have willed it and they would have ceased to exist. But what lesson was that to the remaining angels? Love God or be vanished? That's not the way He works. Instead, God cast them down upon the earth. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. This is Hell. You're standing in it. God looked at the remaining angels and asked for volunteers. They would have their memories of Heaven purged - and would be born as men, in sin. In Hell. God asked each one that volunteered to do only two things. Get home. And bring as many other angels with you as you can. Some will get lost. Disoriented. Will be brought to their knees. Be a light unto them. Lift them up with your experience, strength, faith and hope. If you're here, you volunteered. Dumbass. To wander in Hell, surrounded by Lucifer and his demons. But it took conviction to raise your hand. Hell is separation from God. Nothing more, nothing less. If you are wandering here as a former angel without Him, this is your Hell. If you walk with Him, you are simply fulfilling your promise and are on your journey home. Don't believe you are an angelic spirit? Do you think God created puny, fragile, simple humanoid forms to withstand the torment and temptation of Lucifer and his minions? After that whole Eden thing? Not a lot of optimism in how that would be a winning strategy. Do not fail in your purpose. You raised your hand. If you accept Jesus and acknowledge your sin as a mortal and His sacrifice, you have agreed to the new covenant. He volunteered, too. It's love. It always has been. Lastly, humans are consumed by fear. Fearful creatures we are. We struggle on every level to mitigate 100 forms of fear. Moreover, we struggle even harder to deny we are afraid. Once I accepted my fears and turned them over to God, most of them fell away. I am never alone. But do not forget you are, and every one of us here, is an angel on a mission. We will likely all die with some trepidation or fear. Just don't die without God. Know his Son. Get home. Drag a few along with you if you are able.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jager, | |||
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| Eating elephants one bite at a time |
I have read through this thread several times and it seems like each time I find a new thing to learn, ponder, or wonder about. For example, most if not all of the texts other than the various versions of the Bible are new to me, so there's something for me to dig into. The Bible that I have used in the past is the New Open Bible Study Edition NKJV. One of the things I like about it is the sections that explain the history at the time of the book. I would like to find something that details the history more deeply though. For those who have studied various/many different religious texts and or religions, what drew you to or pushed you away from any particular one(s)? Was there something that gave you some sort of "ah ha!" moment? I find it curious that religion has been something on my mind while not necessarily being on my mind recently. By that I mean that there has been a yearning for something, but I haven't yet figured out exactly what that something is. Given my upbringing and knowledge on the topic, I am at best a young child with what I have been exposed to. It's somewhat odd as a 48 year old man to understand that and the desire to reach out to others wanting a wide range of information. I would like to hear more from people who have posted here as well as those who haven't. I am thankful for those who have had the courage to share their beliefs and appreciate that this has remained a civil discussion even if pointed or challenging questions and comments have been raised. The subject of Transcendental Meditation is one I have wondered about in the past. I would like to learn more about it. The videos posted have been well received. I will likely be digging into more of what Dr. Peterson has to offer. One of the things I remember when I was attending church regularly in my 20s was that each Sunday it seemed like at some point during the sermon the pastor was speaking directly to me. I am having similar reactions to many posts in this thread. Sure, I asked questions and people have shared answers, but it's deeper than that. It is more as if each person is sharing something of themselves that specifically resonates within me in some way. Something that I will need to figure out most rikki tik is how to find time to dig into the subject matter and give it the attention deserved and desired. | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge A discussion on religious texts, beliefs, and paths. Please read before posting.
Main Page The Lounge A discussion on religious texts, beliefs, and paths. Please read before posting.© SIGforum 2024