quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The Chief seems reasonable, especially after three years.

I don't know how this will work out for the officer, but make no mistake, Rolon like all OPD Chiefs is a moron, and is there because Mayor Dyer (King of the Morons) will only appoint a minority to that position. Qualifications and capabilities mean nothing to Dyer, and the OPD officers I know greatly dislike Rolon.

Please don't take parts of a post and present it out of context.

This is the statement the Chief made that seemed reasonable:

"(Police Chief) Rolon said he doesn't think in the end Napolitano will be fired and this could all be worked out. But it has to be done in the next few weeks, or he will be let go."

quote:

(Police Chief) Rolon said he doesn't think in the end Napolitano will be fired and this could all be worked out. But it has to be done in the next few weeks, or he will be let go."

OK then what is the delay? I understand this is Workers Comp. claim, but you think there would be something the Chief could do to push this along. If he already has the diagnosis then the matter is Fitness for Duty which frankly is not all that time consuming. You are not at the mercy of their workers compensation if you have legal representation. In some locales the police union helps in these matters.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Please don't take parts of a post and present it out of context.

This is the statement the Chief made that seemed reasonable:

"(Police Chief) Rolon said he doesn't think in the end Napolitano will be fired and this could all be worked out. But it has to be done in the next few weeks, or he will be let go."

The context you and everyone else reading this thread needs to understand about Rolon is that he's a figurehead. Nothing but an empty suit. As such, 'nothing' rolling out of his mouth is to be trusted and accepted on face value. If Mayor Dyer called and told him to fire Napolitano outright, he'd do it in a heartbeat without a single thought for the officer or department.

I don't know what is to become of Officer Napolitano, but if he's smart, he won't trust a word Rolon has said to date or will say in the future.

Sorry, but as others have pointed out, OP’s thread title is misleading. I’m also not understanding the outrage. If the guy isn’t at maximum medical improvement and also hasn’t been found to be permanently disabled from his police job (e.g., he’s still treating with hope of improvement), then waiting 15 weeks for a psych IME, while ridiculous, would seem to have more to do with his disability application than his job status. The first article even makes clear that the agency which awards disability retirements is entirely separate from the PD.

I do this stuff for a living. MD and FL are different, of course, but the big picture and most of the moving parts are the same.

Having designed and implemented the current system and policies which standardized my employer’s process for separating injured employees no longer able to do their jobs, I can tell you that these policies save government employers with any kind of substantial workforce hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars a year.

I used to work for a large county government and directed the separation of all manner of county employees, including public safety. Now, I work for an even bigger school system and do the same re: teachers, bus drivers, support staff, etc.

[sarcasm]Maybe I’m a terrible person[/sarcasm], but if you were a taxpayer in my county, you would be thanking me.

-Rob

Don't get into an uproar about this. There is a process. It is an emotional thing for a young officer who is injured to the extent that he or she cannot come back as an officer to come to that realization. Healing is a longer road for some than for others depending on the nature of the injury. It takes time to get to the point that everyone realizes he cannot come back as an officer. That's the point where the pension application and Worker's Compensation claims begin in earnest. I had several officers go out this way due to injuries on the job and it is a painful process, but the fact is you just can't keep officers with permanent disabilities on the payroll indefinitely.

My comment had to do with the apparent delay in completing the Fitness for Duty or Disability exam. It should proceed in a timely manner, and have nothing to do with a claims settlement. That should be a separate issue. PTSD is a well recognized disability that does respond to proper treatment. Of course not everyone gets quality care and some individuals never fully recover.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
My comment had to do with the apparent delay in completing the Fitness for Duty or Disability exam. It should proceed in a timely manner, and have nothing to do with a claims settlement. That should be a separate issue. PTSD is a well recognized disability that does respond to proper treatment. Of course not everyone gets quality care and some individuals never fully recover.

But consider what we already can safely assume. If he’s still treating, there’s already going to be current documentation of his work status. His treating psych doc clearly has him out. Couldn’t even manage light duty. His work status is no mystery unless the IME is because the PD disputes it. There are missing pertinent details as to status or process.

-Rob

quote:

There are missing pertinent details as to status or process.

Yes, that makes sense. I get annoyed when an article leaves out significant details to buttress a particular point of view. I do IME and fitness for duty exams and have seen lots of game playing on both sides. Appreciate your comments.

When my small department declared they had no accommodating position that could fit within my work restrictions from my duty related injury. I filed for disability and received it. I had a year of sick leave built up so that helped along with long term disability insurance. I wish the officer well and that every thing works out for him.

Note my surgeon told my wife after surgery that I would not be returning to my position. It took me almost a year of physical therapy, and the department stating they had no position for me, that I would not be returning to my career choice.

Sorry to those who think that well he can't do the job anymore so he needs to move on, no that's not what we should be doing, lot of issues here;

1.) OPD displays the helmet he wore when getting shot, maybe as a statement to the departments courage and how they responded to a terrorist.

2.) He did his duty, didn't cower or hide but went in to face down a terrorist killer, yes just part of the job he signed up for but as we've seen people ring the bell when things get tough.

3.) Whether it's stitches or a chunk of his skull missing isn't the issue, it's the psychological problems that followed the physical injury.

4.) The Chief is a moron, isn't even close he's more than that, actually he's a bigger coward than the Broward Deputy, you have an officer who did the right thing, you display his helmet, yet you're going to fire him?

5.) There's no position for him, how about stay home by the phone if the department needs you we'll call and here's your check, imagine that instead of this crap.

6.) I know some here will think, well he shouldn't get paid for not being able to do the job anymore, well you're dead wrong! Most people don't have to run towards the gunfire, in fact most won't, he did, got shot and got screwed up, the right thing isn't thanks and here's the door, the right thing is the department and city taking care of one of its own. I know I can explain it to people but unfortunately I can't make people understand it.

There are degrees of PTSD, just like any other condition. Some preclude gainful employment in ANY capacity, others do not. This decision is generally made by qualified experts, ie clinical psychololgists or psychiatrists along with Department personnel.

We have very little facts here and his ability or nonability to return to work is speculation.

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
It's been three years. Serious question, how long do you think they should continue to pay him to not be a police officer?

Florida is EFF'ed up when it comes to first responder injuries. Example - you went to college for criminal justice, as you knew you wanted to be a cop. You graduated college, put yourself through the police academy, and then hired on to become a police officer. You've been a cop for 9 years now, and everything is going swell. You are on the dept's SWAT team, you are a detective, and you volunteer your time for the police athletic league to mentor troubled youth.

One day, you get into a foot chase, you step into a hole, and you snap your leg at the knee. This is a career ending injury. You will never heal properly, and can never pass the physically agility test again, to be a police officer. Should be able to get some sort of benefit right? You were injured in the line of duty, serving your country. Nope. Not in Florida. You no longer meet the requirements to be a police officer. Tough shit. You are FIRED! Since Florida requires you to work at least 10 years to be eligible for a pension, you only had 9 years in. Again, tough shit. No pension for you. No retirement for you. No long term disability. Nothing. If you had been injured in the military, or perhaps as a cop in NJ or NY, where the unions have ACTUAL benefits for injured officers, you would get some form of benefit. In Florida, so sad, too bad. Go sell insurance or something.

Ive known numerous good cops, injured in the line of duty or even at training, and the dept kicks them in their ass to the curb without a care in the world. Replace them with a rookie, send the injured party on down the road like a piece of trash.

Interesting.
Here you have 1 year to return to duty, if not disability pension for you. 50% of your highest yearly pay (not including overtime), tax free, medical insurance provided, children go to any state university free of charge.
This includes disability from off duty incidents.
I have long term disability insurance which bumps it to 65% in the event I were to be injured.

So much left out of the article to really judge it.
Here you know you have one year. If you start getting up to month 6 or 7 and it is still up in the air you go ahead and fill out your packet, a couple more months you turn it in.

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
Sorry to those who think that well he can't do the job anymore so he needs to move on, no that's not what we should be doing, lot of issues here;

1.) OPD displays the helmet he wore when getting shot, maybe as a statement to the departments courage and how they responded to a terrorist.

2.) He did his duty, didn't cower or hide but went in to face down a terrorist killer, yes just part of the job he signed up for but as we've seen people ring the bell when things get tough.

3.) Whether it's stitches or a chunk of his skull missing isn't the issue, it's the psychological problems that followed the physical injury.

4.) The Chief is a moron, isn't even close he's more than that, actually he's a bigger coward than the Broward Deputy, you have an officer who did the right thing, you display his helmet, yet you're going to fire him?

5.) There's no position for him, how about stay home by the phone if the department needs you we'll call and here's your check, imagine that instead of this crap.

6.) I know some here will think, well he shouldn't get paid for not being able to do the job anymore, well you're dead wrong! Most people don't have to run towards the gunfire, in fact most won't, he did, got shot and got screwed up, the right thing isn't thanks and here's the door, the right thing is the department and city taking care of one of its own. I know I can explain it to people but unfortunately I can't make people understand it.

I’m curious - does your indignation extend to all public safety personnel in his position, or just this one individual?

If the former, how do you plan on financing the payroll? You do realize you could be talking hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year, compounded annually, for any given agency?

If the latter, why does this guy get to stay on payroll and collect a salary instead of dealing with workers comp, disability retirement, and finding a new line of work like any of his colleagues in the same situation?

-Rob

It applies to all, having been a police officer, fortunately I didn't need to retire due to a situation like his, but FD, PD and EMS deserve better than what they're getting in Orlando. In Mass, he'd get a pension and be retired, and keep his health insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
It applies to all, having been a police officer, fortunately I didn't need to retire due to a situation like his, but FD, PD and EMS deserve better than what they're getting in Orlando. In Mass, he'd get a pension and be retired, and keep his health insurance.

You were clearly advocating for him to keep his position on the payroll, which is ridiculous.

Where do you get the idea that he’s not going to get his shot at a disability retirement? The article linked by trapper189 on the first page makes it clear that a) that process is controlled in no way by Orlando PD, and b) the board responsible is taking or will take the steps necessary to see that he gets a timely hearing vis-a-vis his psych IME, even if they have to go outside of their contracted provider.

-Rob

If you get shot/maimed in the line of duty, you should be very well taken care of for life, end of story.

Sadly that almost universally does not happen.

Having to make a decision that leads to one of my officers falling into that pit is one of my worse nightmares.

A dead cop is a hero. A maimed cop is a liability

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
It's been three years. Serious question, how long do you think they should continue to pay him to not be a police officer?

Florida is EFF'ed up when it comes to first responder injuries. Example - you went to college for criminal justice, as you knew you wanted to be a cop. You graduated college, put yourself through the police academy, and then hired on to become a police officer. You've been a cop for 9 years now, and everything is going swell. You are on the dept's SWAT team, you are a detective, and you volunteer your time for the police athletic league to mentor troubled youth.

One day, you get into a foot chase, you step into a hole, and you snap your leg at the knee. This is a career ending injury. You will never heal properly, and can never pass the physically agility test again, to be a police officer. Should be able to get some sort of benefit right? You were injured in the line of duty, serving your country. Nope. Not in Florida. You no longer meet the requirements to be a police officer. Tough shit. You are FIRED! Since Florida requires you to work at least 10 years to be eligible for a pension, you only had 9 years in. Again, tough shit. No pension for you. No retirement for you. No long term disability. Nothing. If you had been injured in the military, or perhaps as a cop in NJ or NY, where the unions have ACTUAL benefits for injured officers, you would get some form of benefit. In Florida, so sad, too bad. Go sell insurance or something.

Ive known numerous good cops, injured in the line of duty or even at training, and the dept kicks them in their ass to the curb without a care in the world. Replace them with a rookie, send the injured party on down the road like a piece of trash.

The scenario you describe is not true in the case of a service connected disability. The 10 year provision applies only if the officer becomes disabled from a non-service connected condition. Service connected disability pensions apply regardless of length of service.


Due to the degree of interest here I am providing the statute below:

185.18 Disability retirement.—For any municipality, chapter plan, local law municipality, or local law plan under this chapter:
(1) A police officer having 10 or more years of credited service, or a police officer who becomes totally and permanently disabled in the line of duty, regardless of length of service, may retire from the service of the city under the plan if he or she becomes totally and permanently disabled as defined in subsection (2) by reason of any cause other than a cause set out in subsection (3) on or after the effective date of the plan. Such retirement shall herein be referred to as disability retirement.
(2) A police officer will be considered totally disabled if, in the opinion of the board of trustees, he or she is wholly prevented from rendering useful and efficient service as a police officer; and a police officer will be considered permanently disabled if, in the opinion of the board of trustees, such police officer is likely to remain so disabled continuously and permanently from a cause other than as specified in subsection (3).
(3) A police officer will not be entitled to receive any disability retirement income if the disability is a result of:
(a) Excessive and habitual use by the police officer of drugs, intoxicants, or narcotics;
(b) Injury or disease sustained by the police officer while willfully and illegally participating in fights, riots, civil insurrections or while committing a crime;
(c) Injury or disease sustained by the police officer while serving in any armed forces;
(d) Injury or disease sustained by the police officer after employment has terminated;
(e) Injury or disease sustained by the police officer while working for anyone other than the city and arising out of such employment.
(4) No police officer shall be permitted to retire under the provisions of this section until examined by a duly qualified physician or surgeon, to be selected by the board of trustees for that purpose, and is found to be disabled in the degree and in the manner specified in this section. Any police officer retiring under this section may be examined periodically by a duly qualified physician or surgeon or board of physicians and surgeons to be selected by the board of trustees for that purpose, to determine if such disability has ceased to exist.
(5) The benefit payable to a police officer who retires from the service of the city with a total and permanent disability as a result of a disability is the monthly income payable for 10 years certain and life for which, if the police officer’s disability occurred in the line of duty, his or her monthly benefit shall be the accrued retirement benefit, but shall not be less than 42 percent of his or her average monthly compensation as of the police officer’s disability retirement date. If after 10 years of service the disability is other than in the line of duty, the police officer’s monthly benefit shall be the accrued normal retirement benefit, but shall not be less than 25 percent of his or her average monthly compensation as of the police officer’s disability retirement date.
(6) The monthly retirement income to which a police officer is entitled in the event of his or her disability retirement shall be payable on the first day of the first month after the board of trustees determines such entitlement. However, the monthly retirement income shall be payable as of the date the board determines such entitlement, and any portion due for a partial month shall be paid together with the first payment. The last payment will be, if the police officer recovers from the disability, the payment due next preceding the date of such recovery or, if the police officer dies without recovering from his or her disability, the payment due next preceding death or the 120th monthly payment, whichever is later. In lieu of the benefit payment as provided in this subsection, a police officer may select an optional form as provided in s. 185.161. Any monthly retirement income payments due after the death of a disabled police officer shall be paid to the police officer’s designated beneficiary (or beneficiaries) as provided in ss. 185.162 and 185.21.
(7) If the board of trustees finds that a police officer who is receiving a disability retirement income is no longer disabled, as provided herein, the board of trustees shall direct that the disability retirement income be discontinued. Recovery from disability as used herein shall mean the ability of the police officer to render useful and efficient service as a police officer.
(8) If the police officer recovers from disability and reenters the service of the city as a police officer, his or her service will be deemed to have been continuous, but the period beginning with the first month for which the police officer received a disability retirement income payment and ending with the date he or she reentered the service of the city may not be considered as credited service for the purposes of the plan.
History.—s. 16, ch. 28230, 1953; s. 6, ch. 59-320; s. 6, ch. 61-85; s. 2, ch. 61-119; s. 2, ch. 70-128; s. 14, ch. 86-42; s. 948, ch. 95-147; s. 59, ch. 99-1.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Sta...ections/0185.18.html