SIGforum
Is it really possible for someone to steal your home by theft of title?
March 10, 2020, 09:33 AM
radiomanIs it really possible for someone to steal your home by theft of title?
I keep hearing this radio advertisement for a place that's selling some kind of home title theft insurance. The ad talks about some lady whose home was stolen from her when someone else moved the title to their name, and eventually the rightful owner was evicted when the thief sold the title to someone else, who wanted to move into the home they thought they bought.
Is this really possible? Or is it just a scam advertisement to sell some unnecessary insurance?
.
March 10, 2020, 09:41 AM
229DAKA little Google search came up with:
LinkyMaybe a bigger issue is a perp taking out equity loans on your home.
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March 10, 2020, 09:45 AM
Ronin101No Idea...but I suspect both of those are true. I know that Banks have done some pretty illegal stuff
March 10, 2020, 09:54 AM
jhe888You would easily be able to defend against the claim of a fraudster. However, it could cost you quite a bit to do so.
The insurance may be useful to cover those costs. However, the premium strikes me as high given the very low risk that this happens to you.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. March 10, 2020, 09:57 AM
AeteoclesI have literally seen this scam first hand. The corporation I worked for owned a number of houses as investment properties.
The scammers filed the paperwork to create a fake corporation of the same name.
The corporation then opened escrow to sell the property to another fake corporation in Delaware.
The next step would be then selling to an unsuspecting legitimate buyer.
We caught them accidentally, as we were preparing to sell the house ourselves and pulled the title.
We ended up contacting the financial crimes division of our sheriff's department. We didn't think they would do anything. We also had to lawyer up and spent about $20k in fees to quiet title on the property.
Some weeks later, the escrow company (who had been notified of the scam) let the sheriff's department know that the scammers had come back and were now at the step where they were trying to sell to a legit buyer. The sheriff's department set up a sting, and an officer went undercover as the notary. Arrested two middle eastern guys.
They didn't get much of a sentence, but they were ordered to pay restitution of our attorneys' fees and court costs.
March 10, 2020, 09:59 AM
Aeteoclesquote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
You would easily be able to defend against the claim of a fraudster. However, it could cost you quite a bit to do so.
The insurance may be useful to cover those costs. However, the premium strikes me as high given the very low risk that this happens to you.
I think the quiet title action gets muddier against a bona fide purchaser for value.
March 10, 2020, 10:10 AM
jhe888quote:
Originally posted by Aeteocles:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
You would easily be able to defend against the claim of a fraudster. However, it could cost you quite a bit to do so.
The insurance may be useful to cover those costs. However, the premium strikes me as high given the very low risk that this happens to you.
I think the quiet title action gets muddier against a bona fide purchaser for value.
Well, sure, but that isn't fraud, then. I assume they mean the out-and-out fraud were someone files forged deeds, etc.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. March 10, 2020, 10:11 AM
220-9erIt probably happens somewhere but you're more likely to be struck by lightning and these company's may not be selling you anything of value either.
The most likely time for an individual to have a problem is related to identity theft. The best way to prevent that is by putting a free credit freeze through each of the three the credit agency's, not a third party pay site.
https://www.sbnonline.com/arti...t-arent-telling-you/
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March 10, 2020, 10:16 AM
airsoft guyquote:
Originally posted by Aeteocles:
They didn't get much of a sentence, but they were ordered to pay restitution of our attorneys' fees and court costs.
"Pay restitution" is a fancy lawyer way of saying "had bees put in their asshole", right?
quote:
Originally posted by Will938:
If you don't become a screen writer for comedy movies, then you're an asshole.
March 10, 2020, 10:35 AM
ShneaSIGquote:
Originally posted by Aeteocles:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
You would easily be able to defend against the claim of a fraudster. However, it could cost you quite a bit to do so.
The insurance may be useful to cover those costs. However, the premium strikes me as high given the very low risk that this happens to you.
I think the quiet title action gets muddier against a bona fide purchaser for value.
A BFP can win out against a party that acquired title but never perfected that title before the BFP perfected title. (i.e., bad boy seller legally owns Blackacre. Seller sells Blackacre, an unimproved parcel of land, to A, hands A a deed, but A gets lazy about recording the deed. Seller then sells Blackacre to B, who runs straight to the Recorder's Office and records his deed. A then gets around to recording his deed. Blackacre is in a "race-notice" state. B perfected title first as per the recording acts, so B is the lawful owner. A is SOL as to title, but can go fight bad boy seller.)
But, even a BFP cannot acquire title from a party that never legally held title in the first place. Hopefully that BFP got title insurance.
-ShneaSIG
Oh, by the way, which one's "Pink?" March 10, 2020, 10:41 AM
ShneaSIGquote:
Originally posted by radioman:
I keep hearing this radio advertisement for a place that's selling some kind of home title theft insurance. The ad talks about some lady whose home was stolen from her when someone else moved the title to their name, and eventually the rightful owner was evicted when the thief sold the title to someone else, who wanted to move into the home they thought they bought.
Is this really possible? Or is it just a scam advertisement to sell some unnecessary insurance?
There are fraudsters and some sovereign citizen types who try this sort of stuff. As with most things that devolve into civil litigation, dealing with them can be expensive. As land records and recording services modernize, hopefully, this sort of stuff will be harder to attempt.
-ShneaSIG
Oh, by the way, which one's "Pink?" March 10, 2020, 11:02 AM
BurtonRWJesus, I can't believe you brought up Blackacre.
Besides, I thought it had burned to the ground around the same time all of the widgets were sold. At least, that's what the t-shirts said after we took the bar.
-Rob
I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888
A=A March 10, 2020, 11:35 AM
ShneaSIGquote:
Originally posted by BurtonRW:
Jesus, I can't believe you brought up Blackacre.
Besides, I thought it had burned to the ground around the same time all of the widgets were sold. At least, that's what the t-shirts said after we took the bar.
-Rob
Hey man, I adversely possessed it from JHE, fair and square. All it took was Salma doing some wiggling and jiggling, and JHE never paid me no nevermind while I took over open and notorious possession.
-ShneaSIG
Oh, by the way, which one's "Pink?" March 10, 2020, 01:06 PM
Otto PilotI really need to take a selfie, because I am absolutely certain I have the same look my wife gets when me and the buddies start talking aerodromes and sky machines.
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March 10, 2020, 01:09 PM
rsboloWe are just going to let asshole bees slide off into page 2? No gentlemen! No I say!
Someone give ASG a hurrumpf!
Well done as always Freshmaker!
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March 10, 2020, 01:55 PM
ShneaSIGquote:
Originally posted by Otto Pilot:
I really need to take a selfie, because I am absolutely certain I have the same look my wife gets when me and the buddies start talking aerodromes and sky machines.
You should see just how much fun we are at parties.
-ShneaSIG
Oh, by the way, which one's "Pink?" March 10, 2020, 02:00 PM
Graniteguyquote:
Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I have literally seen this scam first hand. The corporation I worked for owned a number of houses as investment properties.
The scammers filed the paperwork to create a fake corporation of the same name.
The corporation then opened escrow to sell the property to another fake corporation in Delaware.
The next step would be then selling to an unsuspecting legitimate buyer.
We caught them accidentally, as we were preparing to sell the house ourselves and pulled the title.
We ended up contacting the financial crimes division of our sheriff's department. We didn't think they would do anything. We also had to lawyer up and spent about $20k in fees to quiet title on the property.
Some weeks later, the escrow company (who had been notified of the scam) let the sheriff's department know that the scammers had come back and were now at the step where they were trying to sell to a legit buyer. The sheriff's department set up a sting, and an officer went undercover as the notary. Arrested two middle eastern guys.
They didn't get much of a sentence, but they were ordered to pay restitution of our attorneys' fees and court costs.
And this is why these types of crimes keep growing in frequency - no real punishment.
March 10, 2020, 09:47 PM
jhe888Wait, wait. Did title vest within 21 years of a life then in being?
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. March 10, 2020, 10:15 PM
Timdogg6Leave shelly to the side for now.
Yes this happens, I am defending a guy now whose 3 properties were hijacked and around $1,000,000 in loans were taken out against them.
It's a hell of a mess to say the least.
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The entire reason for the Second Amendment is not for hunting, it’s not for target shooting … it’s there so that you and I can protect our homes and our children and and our families and our lives. And it’s also there as fundamental check on government tyranny. Sen Ted Cruz
March 11, 2020, 09:38 AM
BB61Let's not get into the rule against perpetuities.
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