My gunsmith retired. He was a real gunsmith, shit ton of experience, fully qualified with metal, fabrication, blueprinting, custom building, overhauls, you name it. He was a qualified machinist, with special machinery and mills and such, and all that goes with it.

So... Where is the gunsmithing industry going ? I know there are lots of specialists and specialist shops all over the USofA, but are new guys coming into the field to serve local needs, that go beyond the regular local guys that are more like Armorers and AR15 builders and such, than real craftsman/fully trained machinists etc. ?

Where is this industry going, or are we headed to the day when the gunsmithing industry, as we've traditionally known it, will go by the way of the dodo bird ? And if that's the case, that industry actually should fade away, why is that and what am I missing here ?

In my area, the dodo bird scenario seems likely. A man much like the one you described retired a year-or-so ago, leaving only one similarly (though not quite as) qualified man in the area. The remaining man is also an older gentleman. There are plenty of machinists around, but they lack the gun insight, and the unique gun-related skills.

The retired man did a lot of awesome stuff for me, in the three-or-so years I brought projects to him. He offered to teach me things, in a somewhat formal manner, but I couldn't allocate the time required and, honestly, likely lacked the mind for it. I certainly learned some things from him anyway, but no amount of knowledge that would qualify me to do anything for anyone else.

A dying art. One where you need an amazing amount of knowledge, a million dollars in jigs and equipment, just in hopes to go broke slowly (instead of quickly) and barely scratch by.

There's lots of parts changers. A number of gun assemblers. Very few gunsmiths. Even fewer craftsmen.

The true craftsmen are old and retiring. There are A few young guys coming up. MkIII in vegas and Bobby Tyler come to mind. Their wait lists are impressive. Local guys that have legit machining experience are few and far and they don’t advertise well. I need a few rifles threaded and I need at least 1 rem 700 bolt handle fixed. I’m told it’s not that tough a job but I need a local guy. I really dislike shipping

It's not just gunsmiths. It's all flavors of craftsman like watchmakers as an example. Sad but true.

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
It's not just gunsmiths. It's all flavors of craftsman like watchmakers as an example.

The difference being that mechanical watches are becoming more and more niche with a smaller customer base with each year, while guns remain just as (if not more) popular.

So the demand for watchmakers is dying alongside their availability, while the demand for gunsmiths is not.

It's tough to get in training and experience.

There is a gunsmithing school in Tishomingo Oklahoma @ Murray State College, a public school. LINK CLICK

There is always a waiting list to get in. Each year only 30 students are admitted. Every applicant will be interviewed, just submitting an application is not enough. It's not eazy peezy getting admitted and finishing the program. A Diploma will be given upon graduation.


FWIW this may be one or one of the very few colleges where there is a gun range on campus for the students and I think for the general public as well.

I've known few students over the years and they all say it was very difficult, very high standards, etc, it's not a cake walk.

Does the US Military offer gunsmith training? I know one can be an armorer but not sure how much that includes.
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quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
It's not just gunsmiths. It's all flavors of craftsman like watchmakers as an example.

The difference being that mechanical watches are becoming more and more niche with a smaller customer base with each year, while guns remain just as (if not more) popular.

So the demand for watchmakers is dying alongside their availability, while the demand for gunsmiths is not.

Point taken but regardless of the cause, old school craftsmen are disappearing.

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
It's not just gunsmiths. It's all flavors of craftsman like watchmakers as an example. Sad but true.

Exactly right! I have spoken to at least two different business owners in two different states: one a jeweler in Northern Virginia and the other a watch maker in Charleston, SC. Both said young people do not want to do an apprenticeship nor otherwise invest the time in learning a craft or trade. I am very lucky to have an excellent local gunsmith but, like me, he is in his 70s.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:


Does the US Military offer gunsmith training? I know one can be an armorer but not sure how much that includes.
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An "Armorer" is an extra duty for a 92Y Supply Clerk. They handle weapons (issue/inventory/recieve) but they don't actually work on them. They don't break a weapon down any further than the average Soldier.

A Small Arms/Artillery Repairer (91F, formerly 45B) DOES work on them, but basically you're talking about performing higher level maintenance, inspections, replacing parts, etc. If you've ever assembled your own AR with stripped upper and lower receivers, you've done what a 91F/45B would do.

I would assume there are probably a very few people with special units (the AMU springs to mind) but as for actual gunsmiths? Not hardly.

I keep getting messages from Sonarian College or something like that from AZ about gunsmithing classes. I also got a job notification from them looking for a remote instructor for ballistics and reloading classes/stuff.

It is a dying art like watchmaking unfortunately. That’s our world anymore. Very few around like home appliance repair. It breaks just replace it like everything else. I think guns are treated the same way anymore. Send it back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement or wrench on it yourself w/ the millions of parts and parts dealers on the net.

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
I keep getting messages from Sonarian College or something like that from AZ about gunsmithing classes. …

That’s probably Sonoran Desert Institute.

Hickok45 pushes SDI at the start of his videos.

Mark and Jer, you guys are correct.

One of the last gunsmiths is at Deercreek gun shop in Kennesaw.

True gunsmithing is definitely a dying art. The true craftsman are retiring or dying off and no one is replacing them.

Today there seems to be a steady stream of people who are more like armorers ( replacing drop in parts and such ) and some that are happy to build you a 1911 for 5k+. But actual gunsmiths, no.

A couple anecdotes:
A few years back I took an older gun with a stripped screw to a local shop. Task fabricate a replacement screw. This should be like gunsmith 101. OT only was he unable to deliver on the fabrication, he ended up losing the original parts I gave him and did not seem to put much effort to locating them.

Going back about 40 or more years ago, we broke a part on a humble mossberg 22 rifle. Rifle had no monetary value to speak of, but for probably 20+ years was my dad’s only rifle, and the one he taught his kids and grand kids to shoot with, so major sentimental value. My dad took it to several “ gunsmiths” who said parts were not available, and it wasn’t worth fixing. Then my dad found out about an old ( this was the 1980’s and the guy was probably 80+ then) guy who fixed guns in a basement shop. He took the gun there, the guy took one look at it, nodding like he had seen this before. He wandered over to a pile of scrap metal on his bench grab a piece of stock, and about @5 minutes later handed the gun back to dad fixed. The old gent asked my dad for 5 or 10 bucks for the work. Today that gun with that hand fabricated part is still running fine. These sort of people hardly exist in ANY trade these days

I suspect there will be a few top tier gunsmiths working their trade for some years to come. But there will be many parts changers, who think everything is as drop-in as on ARs and Glocks, who will ply their trade as "Gunsmiths". That is, until they ruin enough guns to make staying in that business unprofitable, or perhaps hazardous to their health

Thing is, in the US there are no gunsmith standards. Anybody can get their FFL, hang out a sign, and they are a "gunsmith".

The talented guys are building high end 2011s for $4k+ a pop.

Some of the others work on high end precision rifles. But the nature of modern guns has changed a bit.

High end precision rifles are chassis guns with blueprinted actions from very high end builders like Defiance, and they take Savage pre-fit barrels that are easy to swap.

And while of course there are still some very fine rifles from yesteryear that are works of art as well as very capable firearms, they aren't getting shot very much.



The last part is, that most people aren't willing to pay what it costs a talented machinist to fix a gun that is worth less than 2 hrs of his time in the shop.

As an aside, I saw that Mauser is making hand made rifles in Europe (wherever they are), and the pictures looks every bit as good as they were making those same guns two lifetimes ago. That is reassuring, though it doesn't help us in our own cities. But, those guns begin at 15k and go up from there. Old fashioned blue steel and walnut, really beautiful stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
It's not just gunsmiths. It's all flavors of craftsman like watchmakers as an example.

The difference being that mechanical watches are becoming more and more niche with a smaller customer base with each year, while guns remain just as (if not more) popular.

So the demand for watchmakers is dying alongside their availability, while the demand for gunsmiths is not.

The watch industry is not dying at all. Worldwide it’s something like an 80 billion dollar industry which is bigger than the gun industry I believe. You have to remember guns are not nearly as common in many parts of the world like here in the U.S.

You’re not going to have a craftsman on the corner that can fix any watch brand but there are plenty of factory and specialty watchmakers. I think for better or worse the popularity of the AR-15’s and striker fired Polymer pistols the need for a true gunsmith has shrunk. Most are just pull out the old and swap in the new.

I am fortunate to have a super skilled old school gunsmith in the small town 6 miles from me and I thinks it’s as much as a hangout spot as it is anything else. When I stop in for a visit I’m always the youngest person there by far and I’m 59. That will be a huge loss for the area when he retires.