Seems the talk is all about battery powered cars with limited range. Teslas are cool and Bolts are being recalled in mass. The cost of 'fueling' these cars is dependent on where you put the plug. At home, on the road, and in which state. California pays an average of 22 cents per KWH. I pay just under 7.5 cents per KWH at home.

My 2019 Honda Passport gets me about 22 MPG. That’s an average over 37,000 miles of mostly highway travel. I recently picked up a 2021 Toyota Highlander Hybrid. In the first 1,000 miles I am averaging right at 39 MPG. Our daughter has the same SUV that is broke in and getting 42 MPG. The cost of the hybrid system was a $2,000 bump from the all gas but will payback in just 2 years based on 15,000 miles per year.
According to what I found, about 40-45% of a barrel of oil is made into gas. Seems like a simple way to cut back on oil consumption would be to incent consumers and manufacturers to product more hybrid cars. I see very little conversation regarding hybrids.

Am I missing something. (Yes, I know what it is.)
Mike

Electric cars are fine or at least have potential but the push for them is nothing but politics under the pretense of "saving the planet. "

Well, that's because Teslas are the rage and no one markets an affordable yet badass hybrid.

Hybrids are superior to ICE and electric in every way that would matter to me, yet nobody makes one that's both sporty AND affordable. Give me a 600hp ICE tied to a 400HP electric motor that's affordable and I would be all over it.

I think there is a "mania" about electric cars now. There is this idea that if someone can make an affordable electric car, a 25,000 dollar car, then that car will make other gas and hybrid cars obsolete.

I have a Nissan Leaf I plan to sell for the following reasons:

1. Range anxiety- good for short trips but not much else
2. Range anxiety in winter - limited range drops by as much as 30 per cent in winter
3. Can't keep cabin warm in winter
4. Limited acceleration on freeway - once up to speed not much acceleration
5. Charging difficulty - I don't like sitting an hour to charge and get 25 miles
6. Car is not fun to drive, i.e. handles strangely becuase so much weight in bottom of car

A Tesla solves some of the above issues, but jeez, the price of a Tesla is too high.

Ironically, I can probably sell the Nissan now for more than I paid 3 years ago.

I think people aren't noticing hybrids because they come as available options on existing vehicles. Some of the more recent application of hybrid design is indeed focused more at improving performance rather than maximizing fuel economy. For example, the Jeep Wrangler 4xe and Land Rover Defender P400 have a hybrid motor tied to regular sized engines that allow them to produce lots of torque at low engine RPM.

Similarly, the BMW X5 eDrive40 and the Volvo Recharge tie electric motors with their performance engine option to improve performance. Yes, the side effect is that you also get some improved fuel economy and some all-electric range.

Hybrid options exist for many car designs--you can get hybrid options for minivans, SUVs, crossovers, pickup trucks, sports cars, you name it.

quote:

Originally posted by Perception:
Well, that's because Teslas are the rage and no one markets an affordable yet badass hybrid.

Hybrids are superior to ICE and electric in every way that would matter to me, yet nobody makes one that's both sporty AND affordable. Give me a 600hp ICE tied to a 400HP electric motor that's affordable and I would be all over it.

What do you consider affordable. 1000hp is going to be expensive no matter how it's generated.

A real hybrid would be a diesel generator hooked to electric drive motors. I don’t think anyone is doing that yet. The other issue is that one of the major benefits of electric is the lower maintenance cost. A true hybrid would have slightly lower maintenance cost than an ICE drivetrain but would still have more than the electric.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I think people aren't noticing hybrids because they come as available options on existing vehicles. Some of the more recent application of hybrid design is indeed focused more at improving performance rather than maximizing fuel economy. For example, the Jeep Wrangler 4xe and Land Rover Defender P400 have a hybrid motor tied to regular sized engines that allow them to produce lots of torque at low engine RPM.

Similarly, the BMW X5 eDrive40 and the Volvo Recharge tie electric motors with their performance engine option to improve performance. Yes, the side effect is that you also get some improved fuel economy and some all-electric range.

Hybrid options exist for many car designs--you can get hybrid options for minivans, SUVs, crossovers, pickup trucks, sports cars, you name it.

I just picked up an X5 45e in May. It's excellent in every way and I've covered 3/4 of all the miles I've driven in it on the electric battery only, so overall my "mpg" is excellent. And while my electricity is much less expensive than gas, the weight penalty of having a battery and an ICE means that on electricity it's not nearly as efficient as it could be at only 50 mpge. I've got more range and flexibility with the ICE engine on board, but it's a big weight and complexity penalty to get the electric range and smooth operation. Last time I looked my lifetime "mpg" rating is 46. Not bad for a 5k+ pound SUV. But on a long highway road trip, it'll be in the low 20's I think.

The best case, I think, can be made for a plug-in hybrid, at least if one lives in a city.

They can't think about the unicorns and bunnies as long as the thing uses one drop of (evil) gasoline!

Pursuit of money and power.

Looking back at it, when we bought our 2018 Highlander XLE, I should've probably gone with the hybrid. But it was a $3,000 upgrade at that time and I didn't think I could justify the cost.

My aunt bought a new Toyota Sienna hybrid AWD. All the new Siennas are hybrids now. I was incredibly bummed out about this until I drove her new Sienna. It absolutely destroys my 2016 Sienna XLE. The thing is actually kinda fast feeling to drive and gets at least 30 mpg no matter what.

I think maybe the crazy and hype surrounding electric cars is more of a feel good thing than an actual way to be environmentally conscious.

I’m with the OP. Nothing wrong with electric cars but until they can solve some serious flaws and in time they probably will but until then the hybrids are in my opinion MUCH better vehicles.

That hybrid AWD Sienna shocked me. I was expecting total lameness and got anything but that.

Similarly shocking is how good an electric car can be. Not a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt, mind you, you something like a Tesla, eTron, Taycan, etc.

Lots of torque, low center of gravity because of the low slung battery weight, instantaneous throttle response and no gear shifts make for a really cool driving experience. Electric cars can be legitimately fast.

I get that many people on this forum have very real and valid concerns regarding range limitations and energy density. But, electric cars are cool as heck if you can make one work for you.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
My aunt bought a new Toyota Sienna hybrid AWD. All the new Siennas are hybrids now. I was incredibly bummed out about this until I drove her new Sienna. It absolutely destroys my 2016 Sienna XLE. The thing is actually kinda fast feeling to drive and gets at least 30 mpg no matter what.

I think maybe the crazy and hype surrounding electric cars is more of a feel good thing than an actual way to be environmentally conscious.

I’m with the OP. Nothing wrong with electric cars but until they can solve some serious flaws and in time they probably will but until then the hybrids are in my opinion MUCH better vehicles.

That hybrid AWD Sienna shocked me. I was expecting total lameness and got anything but that.

I was really looking forward to the Sienna Hybrid. I was considering changing my Subaru for a Sienna Hybrid as my third "utility" vehicle, but the second row seats are no longer removable with this generation (side airbags are in the seats now). I can't get a sheet of plywood into the van with the second row seats in, so it doesn't add any utility over my Subaru Outback.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
...electric cars are cool as heck if you can make one work for you.

Yes they are.

There are only two drive systems that have maximum torque at zero RPM:

Electric and steam.

The odds of me owning one are approximately zero, but I think driving a Doble would be awesome.

I just don't seem to have the same budget as Jay Leno.

A couple of years ago I drove an Infiniti Q50 Sport AWD hybrid. Holy smokes, the torque! I wasn't in the market, but if I had been -- I'd have certainly brought that home.

Acceleration was fierce, grip was great, the interior was comfortable, trunk space wasn't sacrificed (though the fold-down rear seatback isn't an option in the hybrid). I'm not a fan of all-electric, but that hybrid was amazing to me.

maybe the worst of both worlds vs the best of both worlds. electric has its drawbacks and so does ICE. hybrid has both plus when you add complexity to anything it adds a future problem.

Some are getting the kinks worked out.
Small 3 cylinder hybrid, 1700 bhp
Just gotta win the lottery.
https://www.koenigsegg.com/gemera/

I’m really leaning towards a hybrid for my next truck. Ford F-150 has a mild hybrid that is epa listed at 24 mpg city. I’m also waiting till the new Toyota Tundra is release towards the end of year. There is a rumor of a hybrid option.