quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I always recommend against HD installers, I assume it is some with Lowes. The contractors they use do the work way, way below market rate and HD marks it up to make their profit and be comparable or even less than market rates.

Think about it from contractor perspective. Big box store is their customer, not you. Also they are recieving shit rates for the work. How much do you think they really care about your project? Also why are they accepting less than market rates? Can they not get their own customers? Just started business?

well from a contractor's perspective - I can think of several advantages:

steady stream of business

familiarity with the products sold by the 'big box'

no concerns about sourcing the job - that's handled by HD / Lowes

known cost structure going into the job

billing / collections handled by the 'big box'

etc

we had carpet installed by a Lowes crew once. No complaints. But I can certainly understand how it could be 'hit or miss'

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As a former HD contractor, I will have to agree to disagree with you. It's pure hell subbing for them. We had to do work at a loss in order participate. Only only hope was the people would use use in the future. Guess what, they didn't. We cheered the day our contract with them ended.

I rather stand on a street corner wearing a sandwich board to get customers.

My wife found the guy who ultimately did the flooring in our place through the local Facebook page by getting recommendations from locals. He was great.

Other than that, I like Home Advisor.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I always recommend against HD installers, I assume it is some with Lowes. The contractors they use do the work way, way below market rate and HD marks it up to make their profit and be comparable or even less than market rates.

Think about it from contractor perspective. Big box store is their customer, not you. Also they are recieving shit rates for the work. How much do you think they really care about your project? Also why are they accepting less than market rates? Can they not get their own customers? Just started business?

well from a contractor's perspective - I can think of several advantages:

steady stream of business

familiarity with the products sold by the 'big box'

no concerns about sourcing the job - that's handled by HD / Lowes

known cost structure going into the job

billing / collections handled by the 'big box'

etc

we had carpet installed by a Lowes crew once. No complaints. But I can certainly understand how it could be 'hit or miss'

------------------------------------------------------

As a former HD contractor, I will have to agree to disagree with you. It's pure hell subbing for them. We had to do work at a loss in order participate. Only only hope was the people would use use in the future. Guess what, they didn't. We cheered the day our contract with them ended.

I rather stand on a street corner wearing a sandwich board to get customers.

Good to know. Can you answer if Lowe's/HD covers the issues with satisfaction or would I have to deal with the individual contractor who will most likely disappear before completion?

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I always recommend against HD installers, I assume it is some with Lowes. The contractors they use do the work way, way below market rate and HD marks it up to make their profit and be comparable or even less than market rates.

Think about it from contractor perspective. Big box store is their customer, not you. Also they are recieving shit rates for the work. How much do you think they really care about your project? Also why are they accepting less than market rates? Can they not get their own customers? Just started business?

well from a contractor's perspective - I can think of several advantages:

steady stream of business

familiarity with the products sold by the 'big box'

no concerns about sourcing the job - that's handled by HD / Lowes

known cost structure going into the job

billing / collections handled by the 'big box'

etc

we had carpet installed by a Lowes crew once. No complaints. But I can certainly understand how it could be 'hit or miss'

------------------------------------------------------

As a former HD contractor, I will have to agree to disagree with you. It's pure hell subbing for them. We had to do work at a loss in order participate. Only only hope was the people would use use in the future. Guess what, they didn't. We cheered the day our contract with them ended.

I rather stand on a street corner wearing a sandwich board to get customers.

good perspective. thanks.

quick question - in your opinion would it matter if the state was 'union trades' or not ?

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quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
[......

good perspective. thanks.

quick question - in your opinion would it matter if the state was 'union trades' or not ?

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I've never worked anywhere with unions for residential electricians. I can say for sure on the commercial side there is a lot of inefficiency in Union work as well as the cost of having a union. I see no advantage of using union workers other than they may have a slight amount more of classroom time before real world application and have a training schedule.

FYI my experience is only a sample of one from 2007. We signed up to do the ceiling fan install. At the time I was paid $25 per hour and it cost the company about $35-40 per hour to pay me that (benefits, payroll tax). With overhead near $50.

IIRC Home Depot charged $109 for the install. I cost $90 (2hrs labor - a bit less than normal customers for advertising not spent). Materials cost $18-$35 depending on set up, about $25 avg.

HD paid us $75, 30 days in arrears. It cost us $115. It actually cost us more than the customer paid, and we lost $40 on every job. We thought send the top guys, they will wow the customer with their expertise and customer service and we will earn customers for life. Nope, turns out budget shoppers are actually just concerned about cheapest price and don't care to form a relationship with a business. Not a big surprise, but we thought we'd be able to retain some as return customers. They'd flip out when we quoted additional work because they had a unrealistic expectations of costs.

So you know what we did? We sent the youngest, dumbest, newest guys to do the jobs and waited out the contract. I imagine other companies do similar. We charged regular customers $360 at the time to wire for and install a CF in a new location.

I offer this information, purely for informational purposes. Do not base a purchase decision on one tradesman's experience at a different box store affect your decision twelve years after.

quote:

HD paid us $75, 30 days in arrears. It cost us $115. It actually cost us more than the customer paid, and we lost $40 on every job. We thought send the top guys, they will wow the customer with their expertise and customer service and we will earn customers for life. Nope, turns out budget shoppers are actually just concerned about cheapest price and don't care to form a relationship with a business. Not a big surprise, but we thought we'd be able to retain some as return customers. They'd flip out when we quoted additional work because they had a unrealistic expectations of costs.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This sort of thinking applies in ALL forms of business. I have run a small business for many years and what Jesse says is clearly correct.

^^^^

Wait until Amazon starts getting involved with local services.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Amazon, Berkshire Hathaway, and JPMorgan Chase to partner on US employee health care.

I am sure these folks are more concerned with my health than my physician. I want to see the low cost doctor by all means if it saves money.

I used them once, never again. Their guy measured the entrance to my door wrong not once but twice. They wouldn't accept my measurements which were the correct ones until that idiot screwed up the measurements the 2nd time.

I called HD and Lowes to come estimate a fence.
Took forever (weeks) for the HD estimator to show up. Lowes was fairly prompt.
The Lowes estimator gave me a quote in about 2 weeks, I had to call the HD estimator several times for the quote and then it was with the wrong fencing.
I had several questions for each estimator, I never got answers or calls back. If I can't even get a SALESPERSON to call me back how could I ever expect a contractor to actually show up and if I had a problem how would I ever get it resolved.
I went with a local fence company, paid more but expect them to show up and do a good job. They have been in business for decades so I don't think they are going anywhere if I have a issue.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Use a reputable local contractor and don’t pay a penny up front. Only pay when the work is completed to your satisfaction. And don’t be talked into paying the contractor for materials up front either.

How does that work? I can’t get any reputable contractor here to commit without signing a contract that requires 1/2 down. Maybe because I’m just doing smaller scale things likes porches and bathrooms?

quote:

Originally posted by irreverent:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Use a reputable local contractor and don’t pay a penny up front. Only pay when the work is completed to your satisfaction. And don’t be talked into paying the contractor for materials up front either.

How does that work? I can’t get any reputable contractor here to commit without signing a contract that requires 1/2 down. Maybe because I’m just doing smaller scale things likes porches and bathrooms?

I've never heard of such a thing either.

Of course, I can't get a contractor, reputable or not, to take my money. Or call me back.

We don't collect deposits on projects. Only thing we collect upfront is permit fees, as they are non refundable. If there is an expensive special order or wire cut, we may collect the cost for those as well as they would be non-returnable. Most products we use are common place items that can be returned if the customer cancels or are just held for the next project. All of our projects are small and done in one, or two days.

Common payment for actual project, projects. for most companies ice worked for are:

20% at acceptance of proposal.

30% after passed rough in inspection.

20% after substantial completion (drywall up, paint, floors, etc. Ready for cabinets, appliances, and final plumbing/electrical installs)

30% after final inspection.

Some companies do all four points as 25%, some do three payments of 33%, some front or back load payment more.

Never pay more than 30% upfront, I've seen too many people give a company half up front then the company goes belly up either before or mid project. I have heard some horror stories.

quote:

Originally posted by irreverent:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Use a reputable local contractor and don’t pay a penny up front. Only pay when the work is completed to your satisfaction. And don’t be talked into paying the contractor for materials up front either.

How does that work? I can’t get any reputable contractor here to commit without signing a contract that requires 1/2 down. Maybe because I’m just doing smaller scale things likes porches and bathrooms?

I had a deck built last year. The company I used gave me a list of materials they needed. I paid directly for the materials and set up the delivery date/time myself. They did the work and I paid them when they were finished.

Carpeting from HD was ok experience for me. And ironically, I'm in the same HD as Shootin Blanks. Which shows the crap shoot that it is. But the simpler the task, the better. Had all 6 storm doors replaced by HD. He did a great job, was done fast, and I couldn't be happier.

On the plus side, you have a real company that isn't going to go tits up half way through the job (after 20 years in the biz) like my custom cabinetry guy who shafted me for $5k. Also they QC them and since the contractors want continued biz, they like to keep the mothership happy.

On the downside, you're unlikely to get any master craftsmen or problem solvers in the bunch.

I like to think that they are the right fit to install HD/Lowes products, but that's about it. Have anything unusual to deal with, I'd probably look elsewhere.

We have used HD for carpet and kitchen counter tops with no problems. What I don't like is having to pay full cost up front. If you not satisfied can be a hassle. Had to fight with HD about the yards of padding for living room. Carpeting requires 32 yards to get seams in proper place. Padding only requires 25 yards because you lay padding without worrying about seams. Saleslady did not understand.

So far no response from Home Advisor either.

I'm coming to accept that it's just not going to happen.