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Who else? |
Point Blank Class II for light events. I can move in it, not easy to spot except in warm weather. Usually because of the additional perspiration transpiring. Have a Class IIIA from Gall's that turned out to be too big that I'm going to merge with a backpack as an impromptu shield. Too heavy to wear without everyone knowing except in colder weather. For serious incoming, I went military grade, Interceptor IOTV with SAPI front, back and side plates rated to stop 30.06 M2 AP rounds. It's a trade off. When you're not wearing it, you're nimble and quick and harder to hit. But if you get perforated, life is less fun. When you're wearing it, you're essentially impervious to most small arms fire you might encounter. And because it's so darn heavy (pushing 25 lbs), you're probably going to encounter some. AR500 and 46100 are less expensive options, and will do for most rifle rounds, but are also heavy. I prefer the 46100 between the two. You'll see the term "Milspec" tossed around when these are discussed. The military isn't equipping any troops with this "armor". AR500 and 46100 are used to protect vehicles, typically as protective plates for crew served weapons, weapon shrouds or to shield sensitive items mounted on vehicles. Individuals are procuring these metals and are fabricating them for personnel use. Nothing more - nothing less. The drawback with steel plates are that they do not dissipate the energy of impacting rounds and the resultant fragmentation, spall and ricochets they cause is prone to cause multiple secondary wounds, some of which may be lethal. Another drawback is the "anti-spall" coatings offered. Many of them are little more than truck bed liner spray, sometimes with some fabric (ballistic nylon) tossed in. The reality is, while the secondary effects of round impact are preferable to direct perforation without the steel plate, they will not be pleasant in an environment where infections from multiple shrapnel wounds will kill you dead within a handful of days following. I recommend putting metal plates into a Kevlar type carrier to mitigate spalling and to catch shrapnel and fragments. A typical ballistic nylon plate carrier is not going to do that. Upping for big bucks, Ceramic variants are available, and they sell themselves due to weight savings. The trade off is durability. What you are looking for is something in the arena of Class II or IIA soft armor, with a pocket for a hard or soft trauma plate if the going gets tougher. $300-$400 should get you right and in something utilitarian and serviceable. Cost-wise I would recommend a plate carrier and a couple 46100 or AR500 plates to roll with in the vehicle if things escalate. The AR500 setup can be had for around $250. I haven't priced any 46100 rigs lately. Better to have than nothing at all. | |||
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BBQ Sauce for Everyone! |
Been a few years back, early gen Kevlar. Bought it used (IIa) and wore it for years working armored cars, ATM repair, and body guard work. At 8 or 9 years past mfg date I took it and stuffed the front panel into a scarecrow on the farm. 9mm, .38 and a .357 later it was still minus any holes through and through. Now... that .357 wadded that panel up like a hanky, but it didnt get through. Next morning I put the rear panel in folded in half. From the deck about 100 yards away I popped a dozen rounds though both layers, and the 4x4 post behind the scarecrow. "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein | |||
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| Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock  |
I assume the 100 yards were rifle rounds? IIA or any soft body armor isnt rated for rifle rounds, as you probably know. That said, one of the things that soft armor is tested for is backside dedormation, forgot the actual word. Basically, how far does the projectile go into the panel deforming the backside, which could lead to serious injury or death even if the projectile didnt actually penetrate the panel. ---------------------------- "Voldemorte himself created his worst enemy, just as tyrants everywhere do! Have you any idea how much tyrants fear the people they oppress? All of them realize that, one day, amongst their many victims, there is sure to be one who rises against them and strikes back!" Book 6 - Ch 23 | |||
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| Do No Harm, Do Know Harm |
Best post in the thread. Again, I recommend looking at bulletproofme.com, specifically at their ceramics. I don't consider myself a body armor expert, but I don't really like the idea of getting filleted by a ricochet to my throat. Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here. Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN "All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Indeed. Also wise for people to educate themselves on what constitutes cover and concealment, because regardless what your ballistic protection solution is, you'd prefer not to test it and put some heavier protection between you and any possible shooters. | |||
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Again, it goes back to expected threat level and use though. Yes, II or IIIa could be all-day comfortable, but if one is getting it for an "active shooter" or terror incident, it may not matter at all if a rifle is used (and the odds of being in an incident probably make getting struck by lightning seem "likely" in comparison). If one is getting it for general crime/self defense, OK (the soft armor matches the likely threat...though knives are used more than guns...), but then you are going through some PITA discomfort daily for what will probably still be a never occurrence. If it is plates/carrier in the trunk just in case....probably could just as well be on the dark side of the moon for all the good it would do in the reality of an incident. That is why I settled on armor under my bed for HD. I don't see any other use for it (of any type) as being practicable in a civilian setting. “People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik Be harder to kill: https://preparefit.ck.page | |||
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| Why don’t you fix your little problem and light this candle  |
I purchased a Haley chest rig and run it on a mayflower plate carrier. The plates are by spartan armor Website This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it. -Rear Admiral (Lower Half) Joshua Painter Played by Senator Fred Thompson | |||
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eh-TEE-oh-clez |
Do I want multi curve or single curve for the back side? Full cut or shooter's cut for the back side? Just curious. | |||
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Telecom Ronin |
Multi curve helps fitting full cut for the back would be my choice. | |||
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| eh-TEE-oh-clez |
Back plate: Multi Curve, Shooter or Single Curve, Full I'm looking at Highcom Lvl IV Ceramic plates. | |||
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| Member |
Multi curve shooter will fit best and be flexible in the future (could set up 2x armors with front plates and rear soft armor). The full single curve rear will weigh more, should cost less and provide more protection. If they cost the same, I'd get the multi curve shooter's cut for both, but it isn't a big deal either way. “People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik Be harder to kill: https://preparefit.ck.page | |||
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Would this set up be good for basic BA for HD? (Not planning to wear it outside for my purposes). Description says the plates weigh 4.25 lbs. each. $259.90 for the plates, front & back (free shipping), $79.50 for the plate carrier (free shipping) as well. Never done business with these guys, but their CS seems to be great, when I called a real person answered the phone! https://www.armsunlimited.com/...rrier-p/au-mrbpc.htm https://www.armsunlimited.com/...late-p/1012l3-bp.htm | |||
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| Member |
Okay.... So I ended-up doing a lot more research and changed my mind completely for my purchase. I decided to go Level IV Ceramic & Composite Plates. I purchased the Highcom Security 4SAS-7, Multi Curve Shooters Cut for the front and back ( Here). The reviews online of these plates have been impressive. I will only use these for HD, Rifle Courses and BLM/societal breakdown. For daily use, I am stuffing a Level IIIA panel (also from HighCom) in my work backpack. Highcom is literally 3 miles from me (my work). I sent an e-mail to them last night with a question at 11:00 PM and had a response by 11:30. Asked another question and had a response by 12:15 AM. This is in line with the customer service reports I have read online. During my investigations I emailed one of the steel plate makers and it took nearly 2 days to return my e-mail. Ordered the plates this morning. I would not be surprised if I had them by Monday (again, they are local to me). If I like the plates, I am ordering a second pair for the wife within the week (Level IV and Level IIIA panel). Highcom has a 10% off promo right now (SUPPORTBLUE). I have read about promo codes being as high as 30% off in the past. I will let you all know what I think when I receive them... The "Boz" | |||
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| Member |
That would be a great price for very light level III+ plates if they are good to go. I'm not familiar with that material. My concern would be to confirm if they are "stand alone" or "in conjunction." At Botach https://www.botach.com/hardwir...ck-25-year-warranty/ They label these as in conjunction plates which means they are supposed to be used with soft armor. The soft armor helps them meet the back face deformation standards, so a less expensive trauma pad may work also. I'd call them back and confirm exactly what they are. Trauma pads are a good idea anyway (stand alone or not), the less back face deformation, the better. “People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik Be harder to kill: https://preparefit.ck.page | |||
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Thanks I'll need to follow up on that (see below)...I also didn't see any 25 yr,. warranty on the plates mentioned in the AU description. "”In-conjunction” plates are designed to stop the specified threat within the vest/plate matrix. Some fragments may penetrate the plate, but are of much reduced energy, easily stopped by the ballistic vest worn underneath. “In-conjunction” plates are lighter, more comfortable, and less bulky than stand-alone plates". "When you need Rifle Plates WITHOUT a soft Body Armor vest underneath, you need a Stand-Alone Rifle Plate. Level IV (i.e., Level 4) is tested to stop one hit of .3006 AP, and will easily stop lesser threats". | |||
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Good info RPM2010 on what "in conjunction" means precisely. I have some in conjunction level IV ceramics, but I've got the IIIa to back them so I didn't worry about it either way. One doesn't think too much on what they're issued. I bought a stand-alone plate for my wife, level III+ in front and IIIa soft armor in the rear. I'll back both the soft and hard armor with a trauma pad in the carrier. Her job is to corral the kids, call 911, and watch my 6 freeing me up to just concentrate on the fight. If I'm not home (often) then it's all on her. I want her to have some protection either way. “People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik Be harder to kill: https://preparefit.ck.page | |||
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| BBQ Sauce for Everyone! |
Shit, sorry. Yes... 556 rounds. Confirmed that old axiom... Speed kills. "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein | |||
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| Who else? |
That is the exact scenario I kept envisioning regarding ricochets/shrapnel, along with one to either the artery in either arm or upper thigh or to the head, eye sockets in particular. I faint at the sight of other peoples blood. I scream like a girl at the sight of my own. Well, not really, but I don't like it to be the good guys bleeding. I think of those here as good guys. I don't want anyone to die miserably from ancillary damage induced by something they procured to save themselves. If you go with steel plates, put them (as others have astutely indicated) in a soft III or IIIA carrier, or at least supplement them with soft Kevlar panels that provide protection FORWARD of the plate and padding behind it - if you are using a ballistic nylon carrier. If you don't have something to catch that brass, steel and lead, it's going to catch you. The truth is - as touched on by Strambo and others, the likelihood of any of us taking multiple rifle hits and sitting around afterward tossing back cold ones telling stories of our adventures in the urban sprawl of New Amerika is pretty outside chance. My mindset has always been to move surreptitiously, undetected, as light and as fast as possible to allow for the mission, to hit hard, and get the hell out in one piece. Body armor had never fit within my mindset if it offset other gear that permitted all of the above. But since the "JV Team" is being imported, accommodated and protected - I could see times where I just might have to move where stealth and surprise might not be possible. That I may just have to wade in and give back - because THEIR plan is "to move surreptitiously, as light and as fast as possible to allow for the mission, to hit hard" - and they don't really care to live through it. Body armor suddenly became something I could see donning to assist them in achieving bliss with their deity. Second to that, the FSA has become emboldened as of late and has become not just content to allow their cards to recharge; they have become predatory, vindictive, and some now see me as a legitimate target, a reparations ATM, or a potential victim to be sacrificed at the altar of their pervasive sense of failure. And preying upon them are the gangs and cartels being imported, that are also showing up in our neighborhoods to enjoy their affluence as parasites. And they require your submission to their authority. They do not recognize the sanctity of home or your right to move in public and enjoy the life you have earned. In fact, they believe you are obligated to let them take as much of it as they want. When the chipmunks show up, some days you can be the jaguar. Others, being a snapping turtle might be the way to solve or survive that problem. | |||
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| Music's over turn out the lights  |
Both my front and back Highcom level IV plates are multi curve. This is a purchase which IMO hard to say wait for the 30% off. Its better to have them now than in Nov. Highcomm will more than likely have 30% off black friday ish. I like my plates they are riding in a Mayflower APC, one day I play on getting a Haley chest rig to run on the front. David W. Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud. -Sophocles | |||
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| Member |
If I were you I would contact them and ask for the NIJ model number of the plate they are selling, a copy of the test data both the NIJ certification and the independent testing that made it "III+" I'd also ask if it was tested against M855 and at what velocity. the posted test data shows that it takes the 5 hits required for a level III rating, nothing else. I will also point out that the posted test data is for a ballistic shield and not the plate that advertised, unless there was a 30" x 20" version in the pull down I missed. Also, if you read the standard referenced in the ad, Its for 1985 and specifically says that it's not for body armor and helmets. It's similar to NIJ 101.06 but not the same.This message has been edited. Last edited by: CD228, | |||
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