That's a bit surprising, but you live on the right corner of the state (outside Chicago and the collar counties) for that too.

I've not heard of similar successes in NE IL yet, but it is possible.

Did they make you show proof that your renewal is pending or anything?

Thanks for the clarification. Sorry you guys have to deal with that. Hopefully the challenges you referred to get in front of a judge soon and that garbage gets overturned. Is it legal for you to buy ammo out of state and bring it back home? I know I've seen the Cabela's in Hammond carding IL residents, but that's not Indiana law, just store policy. I'm pretty sure if you went further from the state line, that wouldn't happen. I'll bet clerks in my town (about 2 hours east of Chicago) wouldn't even know such a thing exists. Then again, I can't say that's even an option at the moment...there's no ammo except shotgun shells to be had around here anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Thanks for the clarification. Sorry you guys have to deal with that. Hopefully the challenges you referred to get in front of a judge soon and that garbage gets overturned. Is it legal for you to buy ammo out of state and bring it back home? I know I've seen the Cabela's in Hammond carding IL residents, but that's not Indiana law, just store policy. I'm pretty sure if you went further from the state line, that wouldn't happen. I'll bet clerks in my town (about 2 hours east of Chicago) wouldn't even know such a thing exists. Then again, I can't say that's even an option at the moment...there's no ammo except shotgun shells to be had around here anyway.

Not so. The Walmart in Valpo always asked for a FOID card before they would sell ammo to my friend from Illinois. I don't know if it is a store policy but it seems odd that Cabelas also has the same policy.

"Did they make you show proof that your renewal is pending or anything?"

Not at the time, ( August)
The farm store cashier did not get the memo, so I had to call the home office, 50 miles away , and informed the store owner of the miscommunication.

He made a quick call,
And I walked back in to the store, and purchased the ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by Ogie:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Thanks for the clarification. Sorry you guys have to deal with that. Hopefully the challenges you referred to get in front of a judge soon and that garbage gets overturned. Is it legal for you to buy ammo out of state and bring it back home? I know I've seen the Cabela's in Hammond carding IL residents, but that's not Indiana law, just store policy. I'm pretty sure if you went further from the state line, that wouldn't happen. I'll bet clerks in my town (about 2 hours east of Chicago) wouldn't even know such a thing exists. Then again, I can't say that's even an option at the moment...there's no ammo except shotgun shells to be had around here anyway.

Not so. The Walmart in Valpo always asked for a FOID card before they would sell ammo to my friend from Illinois. I don't know if it is a store policy but it seems odd that Cabelas also has the same policy.

It's gotta be. I can assure you it's not state law. I've never seen anything like that happen around here, nor is there anything in the state statute requiring IN retailers to comply with other state's ammunition laws (even the Gifford's law center will attest to our state's lack of restrictions on ammunition sales, a fact that I'm sure rankles them quite a bit: https://giffords.org/lawcenter...gulation-in-indiana/). I imagine that some stores in "the region" (colloquialism for the NW corner of our state, up by Chicago...which includes Valpo), especially those that have branches in IL as well, are afraid of running afoul of the IL legal machine, but over here well away from the border it's not a thing...at least I've never witnessed it.

My brothers are both from out of state (OH and VA) and neither of them has ever been asked for such a thing when they've come to visit. We are flooded with Illinoisians around here in the summer because they come for the lakes, and I spend enough time in gun shops and have seen enough people buy ammo that I'm sure I'd have witnessed that by now. Frankly, I was shocked when I saw them do it at Cabela's.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Originally posted by Ogie:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Thanks for the clarification. Sorry you guys have to deal with that. Hopefully the challenges you referred to get in front of a judge soon and that garbage gets overturned. Is it legal for you to buy ammo out of state and bring it back home? I know I've seen the Cabela's in Hammond carding IL residents, but that's not Indiana law, just store policy. I'm pretty sure if you went further from the state line, that wouldn't happen. I'll bet clerks in my town (about 2 hours east of Chicago) wouldn't even know such a thing exists. Then again, I can't say that's even an option at the moment...there's no ammo except shotgun shells to be had around here anyway.

Not so. The Walmart in Valpo always asked for a FOID card before they would sell ammo to my friend from Illinois. I don't know if it is a store policy but it seems odd that Cabelas also has the same policy.

It's gotta be. I can assure you it's not state law. I've never seen anything like that happen around here, nor is there anything in the state statute requiring IN retailers to comply with other state's ammunition laws (even the Gifford's law center will attest to our state's lack of restrictions on ammunition sales, a fact that I'm sure rankles them quite a bit: https://giffords.org/lawcenter...gulation-in-indiana/). I imagine that some stores in "the region" (colloquialism for the NW corner of our state, up by Chicago...which includes Valpo), especially those that have branches in IL as well, are afraid of running afoul of the IL legal machine, but over here well away from the border it's not a thing...at least I've never witnessed it.

My brothers are both from out of state (OH and VA) and neither of them has ever been asked for such a thing when they've come to visit. We are flooded with Illinoisians around here in the summer because they come for the lakes, and I spend enough time in gun shops and have seen enough people buy ammo that I'm sure I'd have witnessed that by now. Frankly, I was shocked when I saw them do it at Cabela's.

If I recall, Illinois law does not allow a transfer of ammunition into Illinois without a FOID card, or copy of FOID card being presented. So if you are an Illinois resident and purchase ammunition in Indiana without showing a FOID card, you are in violation of Illinois state law. It is possible that Indiana establishments that sell ammo do not want to be seen as facilitating illegal ammo transfers. I am going to check with my LGS later today and see if I can get any further clarification.

Wow! When I lived in Chicagoland in the mid to late 90’s there were no carry permits available. Period.
Had to have a FOID card to possess ammo or firearm in your home and there was a 10 day waiting period for a transfer.

quote:

if I recall, Illinois law does not allow a transfer of ammunition into Illinois without a FOID card, or copy of FOID card being presented. So if you are an Illinois resident and purchase ammunition in Indiana without showing a FOID card, you are in violation of Illinois state law. It is possible that Indiana establishments that sell ammo do not want to be seen as facilitating illegal ammo transfers. I am going to check with my LGS later today and see if I can get any further clarification.

Please do...I'd be interested to hear their response. I've brought this question up on here before, but have never gotten a difinitive answer. If your understanding of the IL law is correct, though, it would be the purchaser breaking the law by transporting the ammunition into IL, not the retailer breaking the law by selling it to them. How does the retailer know that they are transporting it back to IL and not using it here in Indiana where it's perfectly legal for them to purchase and possess?

An interesting parallel would be drug paraphernalia. I know of a couple of stores in our town where you can buy a meth pipe over the counter. As a clean, unused pipe, it's perfectly legal to sell and possess. But we all know they're buying it for meth...that's the only thing that you use that type of pipe for. If we stop their car and that clean pipe is in plain view on the dash, they go on their merry way. If it has meth residue in it, though, they can go to jail for poss meth/poss paraphernalia. It's a matter of the user's intent, and the retailer gets to keep selling them openly because he's not the one putting meth in them. I'm not equating meth use to guns here, obviously, but if the guy at the local quickie mart can peddle meth paraphernalia openly with no burden of proof of the buyer's legal intent, why can't stores that sell ammunition (which is completely legal in this state...state law doesn't even require retailers to ID purchasers of ammunition, although most big-box places do) do the same?

I'm not trying to encourage people to break IL state law here (even though I think it's a stupid law)...if in fact it is illegal for them to purchase ammo out of state and transport it back into IL, they should not do that. I am intrigued, though, about how this law from one state is affecting retailers in other states that have no such laws, and what is causing those retailers to comply with it. Is it the threat of civil retribution from the state of IL? Is it concern that the state of IL will take action against other retail outlets from the same parent company in that state? Are they just trying to help their customers comply with IL law in good faith? I'm very curious.

when I purchased ammunition out of state at a Walmart in Kentucky I was required to show them ID...I asked do you want my driver's license or my FOID card and was told whichever I wanted to show...when she saw my address she asked me why I had come so far to get ammunition and I told her where I was staying and she was fine with it...

quite a few years ago I tried to buy ammunition at Cabela's in Indiana and was told I had to show my Illinois FOID card but since they were out of that particular cartridge I didn't make the purchase...

by the way, I am into month 10 waiting on my new FOID...I renewed the first day I was eligible to renew...last March...

Bill

Well, I called my LGS today and I asked to speak to the head guy there, whom I know pretty well. He wasn't there today so I asked the person who answered the phone about the FOID card issue. He told me you didn't need one. Then I told him about Walmart and Cabela's. He then asked me to hold for a minute. When he got back on he told me he had made a mistake, and that yes if you were an Illinois resident you needed to show a FOID card to purchase ammunition. His manager there at the time told him it was the law. I'm still not clear as to the details of the law but I am pretty sure that you won't be able to purchase ammo in Northwest Indiana without a FOID card if you are from Illinois.

quote:

His manager there at the time told him it was the law.

Did he quote you the statute? I'll bet he can't, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist...at least not in the Indiana code. Admittedly, I could be wrong, so if it is in there I'd love to see it. Looking at the huge book that makes up our state laws, I'm rapidly coming to the realization that it's easier for somebody in the know to prove that a law does exist than it is to prove that it doesn't!

So far, I can only find 2 statutes in the Indiana Code related to the regulation of ammunition...one prohibiting "political subdivisions" from regulating it (basically state wide pre-emption):

IC 35-47-11.1-2 Political subdivision regulation of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories prohibited
Sec. 2. Except as provided in section 4 of this chapter, a political subdivision may not regulate:

(1) firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;

(2) the ownership, possession, carrying, transportation, registration, transfer, and storage of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories; and

(3) commerce in and taxation of firearms, firearm ammunition, and firearm accessories.

And IC 35-47-5-11.5, which prohibits the possession or sale of armor-piercing ammunition (it's long, so I won't past the whole thing here...but it only relates to armor piercing ammo).

I don't see anywhere that the state code requires the identification of anyone in order to sell them ammunition. Maybe there's something at the federal level that FFL holders need to comply with? If so, I'd be interested to read the actual law. Can any of our FFL holders speak to this?

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I don't see anywhere that the state code requires the identification of anyone in order to sell them ammunition. Maybe there's something at the federal level that FFL holders need to comply with? If so, I'd be interested to read the actual law. Can any of our FFL holders speak to this?

There's nothing in the state law, but federal law makes it illegal to sell handgun ammo to anyone under 21. This is why Walmart asks for ID everywhere.

The Hammond Cabelas is asking for a FOID simply because they don't want to facilitate trafficking in ammunition illegally. There's nothing illegal about an IL resident buying ammunition in IN. What if they were going to use it on an Indiana hunt, or on an Indiana firing range? There would be nothing illegal about the sale if they weren't taking the ammunition back to Illinois. Contrary to what the tyrannical state of IL might prefer, its jurisdiction ends at the border, and its citizens are just that --citizens, not subjects. They are free to leave the state and abide by the laws of the jurisdiction they enter.

Having said that, I'm assuming the border retailers have instituted the policy to not participate in the business of helping people circumvent IL law. They are avoiding controversy and possible civil legal jeopardy. It used to be that the Cabelas at the NV/CA border did big business in ammo to CA residents. I don't know if they still sell to Californians, but I could see them instituting a similar policy to prohibit it after California's ammo background check. They don't want to be the ones who sell a bunch of ammo, legally, and then have it trafficked back to another prohibited state to be used in a crime. Remember how, after the Las Vegas shooting, they went after the reloader who sold ammo to the shooter? The border retailers, rightly so, want no part of it.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

His manager there at the time told him it was the law.

Did he quote you the statute? I'll bet he can't, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist...at least not in the Indiana code.

I agree. As someone else mentioned, my guess is it's likely a corporate policy. They probably want avoid someone claiming that they facilitated a FOID-less IL resident circumventing IL law by crossing the state line to buy ammo.

quote:

Having said that, I'm assuming the border retailers have instituted the policy to not participate in the business of helping people circumvent IL law. They are avoiding controversy and possible civil legal jeopardy. It used to be that the Cabelas at the NV/CA border did big business in ammo to CA residents. I don't know if they still sell to Californians, but I could see them instituting a similar policy to prohibit it after California's ammo background check. They don't want to be the ones who sell a bunch of ammo, legally, and then have it trafficked back to another prohibited state to be used in a crime. Remember how, after the Las Vegas shooting, they went after the reloader who sold ammo to the shooter? The border retailers, rightly so, want no part of it.

Yep, I can completely understand that. It's their choice as a company, and if they feel it's necessary to do that to protect themselves from liability then that's their right. If that's the case, though, they should own it and call it corporate policy instead of telling people it's the law. There's a lot of misunderstanding of gun laws that gets passed around, and IMO it's worth the time and effort to clarify what the law says and what it doesn't.

Either way, my apologies to Bendable for derailing his thread. That wasn't my intent...just trying to clarify what would be legal options for a IL resident in all this craziness.

I don't believe in coincidences. It is hard to imagine three different businesses that require a FOID card from Illinois residents before they will sell them ammo. I'd be willing to bet that you could call every gun shop/ammo retailer in NW Indiana and get the same response. It seems highly unlikely that it is the corporate policy of several different corporations.

I will see what I can find out in the next few days to clarify this issue. It is possible there is some kind of internal agreement between the states of Illinois and Indiana to prohibit sales of ammo to Illinois residents that do not produce a FOID card.

quote:

Originally posted by Ogie:
I don't believe in coincidences. ... It seems highly unlikely that it is the corporate policy of several different corporations.

Of course it’s not a coincidence.

But, I have to disagree: There is nothing more lemming-like than the behavior of American corporations. You don’t have to look any farther than 2020.

First they were rushing to implement covid rules: “Were asking our customers to wear masks.” “That’s nothing! We force our customers to wear masks or we throw them out of the store!”

Then look at their nauseating BLM virtue signaling “Our corporation is donating $5 million dollars to BLM” “That’s nothing! We’re donating $20 million and hiring a black CEO!!”

This thread had gone way, way side ways .

Let's stick to Illinois and the food card issue please.