Aren't propane tanks added risk ? And does burying them add to or subtract from said risk ?

Burying them is more aesthetically pleasing thus the HOA wants bushes etc so the tanks are not visible. Otherwise I’m not sure which one would have an advantage

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Originally posted by wrightd:
Aren't propane tanks added risk ? And does burying them add to or subtract from said risk ?

Risk of what exactly? Jason Bourne blowing it up with a shotgun?

When we lived in Florida the commercial power was out for 5 days following hurricane. Our 15kw Generac cranked up within 15 seconds and powered our house and shop perfectly. We even shared power with two of our neighbors. We now live in NC, our home here has a 20kw unit that we seldom need but still nice to have.

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Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
Aren't propane tanks added risk ? And does burying them add to or subtract from said risk ?

Risk of what exactly? Jason Bourne blowing it up with a shotgun?

No blowing up for unknown reasons. It happened in my city about 30 years ago, a VERY large expensive custom home on a large lot had just been finished, and there was a propane accident, blew the house apart like matchsticks, and I watched it burn to the ground. Everyone in the house was killed. The news said the on-prem propane tanks were to blame. But I have no idea how that could happen. I doubt jason bourne was involved, but apparently if you screw up an installation... that's my guess, a bad installation or a sub par contractor cutting corners etc. I have no idea. But it was propane tanks. So that went in my brain as a check box, research propane before you pull the trigger etc.

Does anyone know what the difference would be between in improper vs a proper installation of propane for a residence, and are there any built-ins to prevent an explosion from acts of god, or the local hood firing rounds into the tank, or other weired stuff like that.

Propane is heavier than air so it can be an issue in a basement for example. A leak in the basement can fill the basement and boom.

I’m guessing an outside installation of buried or above ground propane tanks and a generator would not be an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
Does anyone know what the difference would be between in improper vs a proper installation of propane for a residence, and are there any built-ins to prevent an explosion from acts of god, or the local hood firing rounds into the tank, or other weired stuff like that.

improper is when the guy installing it is smoking cigarettes while doing it.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
Does anyone know what the difference would be between in improper vs a proper installation of propane for a residence, and are there any built-ins to prevent an explosion from acts of god, or the local hood firing rounds into the tank, or other weired stuff like that.

Use someone licensed and get a permit, this will rule out loads of stuff... as for someone shooting it, be nice to your neighbors?

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Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
Aren't propane tanks added risk ? And does burying them add to or subtract from said risk ?

Risk of what exactly? Jason Bourne blowing it up with a shotgun?

No blowing up for unknown reasons. It happened in my city about 30 years ago, a VERY large expensive custom home on a large lot had just been finished, and there was a propane accident, blew the house apart like matchsticks, and I watched it burn to the ground. Everyone in the house was killed. The news said the on-prem propane tanks were to blame. But I have no idea how that could happen. I doubt jason bourne was involved, but apparently if you screw up an installation... that's my guess, a bad installation or a sub par contractor cutting corners etc. I have no idea. But it was propane tanks. So that went in my brain as a check box, research propane before you pull the trigger etc.

Properly functioning propane tanks are as safe as natural gas supply to homes. A propane tank is not going to explode on its own, there has to be a malfunction of some kind. I'd ignore news reports since they are rarely accurate. I would suspect a leak that filled the house and found an ignition source. Just my opinion based on experience but I'm no expert.

Look up "BLEVE", propane tanks can even withstand external fire impingement for a short time. A BLEVE is pretty impressive.

Things can happen, one of the new tanks installed had a defective weld,1/8 inch hole that was leaking. Good thing it was noticed before the tank was filled. Was replaced and all was good.

Just finished up having my whole house generator installed so I thought I would give an update here instead of starting a new thread.

I bought a Briggs and Stratton 20KW natural gas generator. It is a 1000CC twin cylinder engine with an oil cooler. Maintenance looks pretty easy, I can drop the front cover to change the oil and spin on oil filter. The air filter is round and looks like the old 350 Chevy air filters from the 70's. It only uses a couple quarts of oil so changing out with synthetic will be fairly cheap.

As far as the process, here is what they did (should be similar for everyone in Texas with the exception of local differences).

- The trench for the gas line and power needed to be 18" deep. Surprisingly they did not use 1 Call and dug it all by hand.

- The generator company set a pad for the generator that was 6 foot from any window and about 6" off my fence line. This ended up being about 25 feet from my gas meter and about 10 feet from my breaker panel. They used a little tracked vehicle to move it to the pad.

- The plumbers connected the poly (Not sure exactly what it is) gas line to the generator and downstream side of my gas meter (the gas company did not need to get involved since it was on the house side). They pressured it up and my city inspector signed off on it being leak free (It was pressured up over night).

- Once all that was done the gen company spent one 8 hour day running the wiring, installing the automatic transfer switch and whole house surge protector (which is required by code).

- Once that was all ready, they pulled my meter (it was supposed to be the power company but that would have left me without power for a while so I am glad the electricians pulled it) and I lost power for about 1.5 hours (at 3:30 in the afternoon it the middle of a heat wave). They installed my meter when they were done and I had power at the house again.

- The gen company had to come back and let the city inspect the install. They signed off and the final inspection had to be scheduled later. There were a couple things they were lacking, it required 2 ground rods (they only had 1) no more than 6 feet apart and they had to label the ATS and breaker panel for Fire Department ID.

- The gen company went over gen operation with me and cut the main power to the house to test the generator.

- I am waiting on the final inspection (I have no idea why they could not do this earlier) from the city and I am done.

- When testing the generator I was pulling about 51% of generator capacity. This is with A/C and everything I normally run in the house on. The gen company claims I should shoot for about 50% load when using it to keep the generator from working to hard (which they said would extend the life). That makes sense to me, more load means higher run speeds and more wear to the engine.

- With the extreme heat here (highs up to 103 this coming week) I am glad I did not try and do some of this myself, I was tempted to do what I could and just pay the electrician and plumber to do their part. Without being familiar with the codes (which I believe is NEC) I would not have known what to do. If I had to do it again I could probably take care of digging the trench and running the gas line and electrical "conduit" (not sure what it is called, it looks like poly tubing).

I am ready for anything ERCOT (Texas entity that controls most of the state power) can do to our power grid. When we had our last state wide freeze, Texas was close to losing power state wide for several weeks. Now I do not worry about losing power during hurricanes or freezes (assuming I have natural gas supply).

Now on to the 80k of other work I need to do to my house before I retire.

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Originally posted by P250UA5:
We got our first estimate last week. 24k Generac, NG powered, 13.6k

Have 2 more coming in the next 2 weeks.

My favorite is ONAN and feel it's a better quality than Generac, Generac is fairly good and would put them above Kohler only because I've seen a lot of electronic gremlins on Kohlers.

Thanks for the update and review, mrvmax!!

Question...you mentioned they installed the generator pad 6' from any window. I live in a townhome...zero lot or VERY little "property" to work with in terms of installing a pad 6' from any window. Is it code that the generator has to be set off from the house a certain distance? Also, I already have a gas line running to my house, as I have a natural gas water heater. Does that mean the existing line could be tapped to provide fuel for a generator?

Thanks for any feedback!! [thumbs up]

There’s code that covers where the generator can be located in relation to openings (windows, doors, etc.) due to carbon monoxide.

We have natural gas, but had to upgrade the meters and main feeds to the houses for the generators.

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Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Thanks for the update and review, mrvmax!!

Question...you mentioned they installed the generator pad 6' from any window. I live in a townhome...zero lot or VERY little "property" to work with in terms of installing a pad 6' from any window. Is it code that the generator has to be set off from the house a certain distance? Also, I already have a gas line running to my house, as I have a natural gas water heater. Does that mean the existing line could be tapped to provide fuel for a generator?

Thanks for any feedback!! [thumbs up]

They are typically prohibited by the HOA in town houses. I believe it's 18" from the house and 5' from any openings like windows/doors/vents/HVAC piping.

The size of the generator, the existing gas meter, existing gas loads will all determine if you need to do a meter upgrade or split pressure system.

I'd start with HOA before you look any further. Out of the hundreds of generators I've installed only two were on a townhouse. One was for someone with special medical equipment and was able to get a variance through ADA or similar government programs.

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
Thanks for the update and review, mrvmax!!

Question...you mentioned they installed the generator pad 6' from any window. I live in a townhome...zero lot or VERY little "property" to work with in terms of installing a pad 6' from any window. Is it code that the generator has to be set off from the house a certain distance? Also, I already have a gas line running to my house, as I have a natural gas water heater. Does that mean the existing line could be tapped to provide fuel for a generator?

Thanks for any feedback!! [thumbs up]

It is code to be 6 feet away, to ensure there is no CO ingress into the living area. The plumber tapped into my gas meter right before it entered my house.

I bought the Cummins whole house generator a few years back and have it set up with a 500-gallon propane tank. The first round of tornadoes this year knocked the power out here in this rural area for several days. First time it had ever been out for that long. Auto on, ran flawlessly for seven days, auto off. No problems.

quote:

Originally posted by reluctantpaladin:
I bought the Cummins whole house generator a few years back and have it set up with a 500-gallon propane tank. The first round of tornadoes this year knocked the power out here in this rural area for several days. First time it had ever been out for that long. Auto on, ran flawlessly for seven days, auto off. No problems.

^ Isn't that great? The power goes out, the genny cranks up, and you continue with what you were doing.

We had ours installed in March & I don't know why we waited so long.

Thanks for that additional input. [thumbs up]