Thanks, RogueJSK, for your perspective and clear-eyed comments on the matter. I have long suspected most of what you described, but lacked the experience to know for sure.

Unfortunately, most people don’t have the experience to know what they’re talking about and therefore are reduced to platitudes expressing their stereotyped opinions, and while the rest do know the truth based on experience, they are unable or unwilling to state it lest they be accused of prohibited thinking.

A few months ago I saw on the news where a family run market in Ohio was busted for fraud. The Government said they were defrauded 2.4 million dollars from this one market. The owners would give $50.00 cash for a $100.00 EBT card and then charge the government $100.00

One market 2.4 million. How many have never been caught?

And all too rarely there's this.

and financial illiteracy ,

there are collage graduates that do not know
about saving money , spending money wisely, or
interest.

there are people living on the street in the bay area , that are making $175,000.00 a year.
( in cars ,vans and campers.

I work 2.5 blocks from a free meals homeless kitchen, there are lots of homeless in our general area. I have seen and interacted with many of them almost every day for 12 years.

Most of the ones here, north of San Francisco, are here for the free programs so they can continue with their drug fueled lives. They have no desire to ever work, ever get off drugs, etc. Also near by are dozens of hispanics, going to 7-11 for breakfast, and working their butts off in construction or any job they can find. Many are saving money to send to their poor families in Mexico.

In my estimate, 80% or greater or druggies who are very satisfied with the free food, etc. The other 20% are probably mentally ill or have made some poor choices in life.

As to the hispanics, many of them would prefer to be working in Mexico, and be with their familes every night. When NAFTA came in, numerous American corporate farming companies when into Mexico and out competed the Mexicans in farming. The corp. farmers had more machinery, etc. Then they cut pay to their Mexican workers "because they could". The result is that the Mexicans were only able to earn enough money to buy tortillas to eat. As a result, they came up north to earn money to send to their families. One person I know very well, I was speaking to his brother who is also working up here. His brother has a wife and two kids. I asked him if he missed his family, and he started crying...

So I can safely say that some of the extremely large amount of illegal immigrant influx is because wages were driven down by USA corporate farmers taking advantage of Mexicans in their own country.

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
Over 70% of the students in the school system here are on free or reduced meals. They’ve also started feeding these kids during the summer.

This is going on also in a city near me, Danville.

Now the Danville City schools are begging for money for upgrades-repairs. The parents who supported these schools left years ago, after getting fed up with the violence and lack of discipline in the schools.

I don't have an opinion or experience with homeless folks, hardly ever see any in my rural area.

It is impossible to dismiss life-controlling problems such as mental illness or drug addiction. The fact is, the vast majority of those living on the streets have one of these, or both. I attend an inner-city church that ministers in poor neighborhoods and to some homeless in our immediate area. One woman has attended for quite awhile, but she is both drug-dependent and mentally ill. The latter possibly a result of the former. Last year she was sleeping on the sidewalk when a public transit bus made the right turn, went up on the curb, and ran over her leg, causing it to need to be amputated. She was in the hospital for weeks, got sober, looked better than any of us had ever seen her, and the church lined up a permanent bed in a home for her. She was due a sizable settlement from the city municipality for the accident. Our pastor tried and tried to persuade her, but when released from the hospital she went right back to crack, prositution, sleeping on the street, etc. She is 60+ years old and has been on the street for 40+ years.

In a more general sense, once a person is destitute, recovery is an uphill climb. Finding a job with no address, no place to clean up and get dressed for work, and limited transportation options is extremely difficult. It typically takes an individual small businessman with a heart for the homeless to give these people a chance. And sad to say that they are more often burnt than rewarded for their good deed.

Conscience choice. (Disregarding the mentally ill)

Everyone else has made a long line of bad decisions and continues to do so.

Kids are victims of their birthing..if they didn’t have shitbag parents who didn’t get married and get jobs the starving kids you mention would be far better off in live. And it sad that the innocent have to be to ones who suffer

In most cases it's due to one of the following:
1. Drug use
2. An inability or refusal to understand that actions have consequences; you only get to control actions (your own).
3. Selfishness

Silent

When I was a poverty kid, taking care of myself....the one parent that lived there with me, sometimes (she worked nights and the nights she didn’t work she went out) was too ashamed to sign the federal lunch program form for me to get school lunches. I did not give 2 fucks about what the kids would say at school or anything. So I forged her damn signature. My lunch ladies knew my predicament and hooked me up, breakfast, and lunch. Dinner I would starve as there was rarely food in the house.

My point, it happens. Many children are born to dirt bags who don’t care about the kid, or have no business raising a child. It happens and it’s an ugly thing. I’m proud to volunteer during the holidays at the homeless shelter downtown and serve dinner to these men on the streets. I’m in the back washing dishes, busting my ass. It could have been me in that serving line.

quote:

Unfortunately, most people don’t have the experience to know what they’re talking about and therefore are reduced to platitudes expressing their stereotyped opinions, and while the rest do know the truth based on experience, they are unable or unwilling to state it lest they be accused of prohibited thinking.

Wow, most people huh. How's that for sterotyping people.

Glad you feel it necessary to talk down to "most people" that you speak of.

While Rogue is spot on and has broad real life exposusre to the street. A lot of people can speak to what the issue is as it is not something that is that hard to figure out. Decades have taught as all we need to know.
And no, Children do not deserve to have to be cycled through this mess. They are a true casualty.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
When I was a poverty kid, taking care of myself....the one parent that lived there with me, sometimes (she worked nights and the nights she didn’t work she went out) was too ashamed to sign the federal lunch program form for me to get school lunches. I did not give 2 fucks about what the kids would say at school or anything. So I forged her damn signature. My lunch ladies knew my predicament and hooked me up, breakfast, and lunch. Dinner I would starve as there was rarely food in the house.

My point, it happens. Many children are born to dirt bags who don’t care about the kid, or have no business raising a child. It happens and it’s an ugly thing. I’m proud to volunteer during the holidays at the homeless shelter downtown and serve dinner to these men on the streets. I’m in the back washing dishes, busting my ass. It could have been me in that serving line.

Kudos to you , sir!

The reasons for homelessness are as varied and numerous as the number of homeless. There are those whose choices made them homeless. There are those whose circumstances made them homeless. There are those whose circumstances made them homeless and their choices keep them homeless. There are those who are homeless because of others' choices. One thing I've learned from observation is that once homeless, the individual seems destined to remain so since the inertia to escape is just so great and homelessness makes a person vulnerable to consequences that seem greater than they would be otherwise.

Our oldest boy was homeless for a couple of years not too long ago. This was his second tour of homelessness. We raised him as a married, loving couple in a provident home with the full spectrum of education. So how did he become homeless then? Consequences. I've heard and read for years that marijuana is not a gateway drug. Well it was for him. His first toke of the big J was when he was 16, in June, if I recall correctly. The struggle with drugs and alcohol was long and painful from there. He lost jobs and a marriage to addictions. The consequences overwhelmed him until he did a stretch in prison.

By the time he got out a decade later, he had burned all of his bridges. So back on the street he went for two years. Now he's felon and living on the street made him look unattractive. No one will hire him. Law enforcement won't leave him alone. He cycles in and out. Until he was hit by a truck while crossing the road in a crosswalk. The driver fled and our son was taken to the ER as an indigent. Three days in hospital care and out on his ear. Still unable to walk or deal with homeless life. Consequences and circumstances.

We had no idea what he was up to since we had to disconnect from his disastrous lifestyle years ago. We got a call from a concerned soul and long story short, brought him home to recover. One condition: No addictive substances. He made it about 3 months. He's out again but not homeless. He worked for me for 5 months and saved enough money to get a place, buy some nice clothes and find a sales job. Our fingers are crossed.

Choices and circumstances.

Thank you to all the information.
Thank you for some of your personal stories and experiences.
To me the worst part of all of this is the children who are the innocent victims.

At church on Sunday they announced starting Jan 1 they will allow homeless women with kids to sleep in their cars overnight in our parking lot and shower and clean up in the AM in our shower and be on their way for the day. Church will even provide parking lot security guards. Not sure how I feel about this my suspicion is that women with kids with any marketable skills who can get a decent job who are not addicts is a very,very small percent of the homeless. In my town there are many churches that open up gyms / large dining rooms to sleep in when temps get in the 40s or raining. They do no allow weapons or drugs /alcohol nor allow people to come in visibly intoxicated. So the actual homeless taking them up on these services are not many.

Mental problems and substance abuse is behind most.

I’m hearing lots of excuses. The answer is shitty parents.

My parents were shitty. I fed my siblings. When I was old enough I fled, working crap jobs until I could enlist. I moved “up” from there. Sometimes I was hungry, but my kids ate.

Shitty parents suck.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
I work 2.5 blocks from a free meals homeless kitchen, there are lots of homeless in our general area. I have seen and interacted with many of them almost every day for 12 years.

Most of the ones here, north of San Francisco, are here for the free programs so they can continue with their drug fueled lives. They have no desire to ever work, ever get off drugs, etc.
In my estimate, 80% or greater or druggies who are very satisfied with the free food, etc. The other 20% are probably mentally ill or have made some poor choices in life.

This, my friend works for a very large church that has a large homeless program. 95% of them are either seriously addicted to drugs,alcohol or mentally ill, or all 3 and none of those want help, only free food and to continue doing the drugs or alcohol. Only about 5% of them have become homeless due to poor financial choices or things out of their control and of those, they've helped get jobs and a place to live etc.

When we lived in Maui our church provided backpacks and "snacks" for local school kids. My wife asked why they provided food for the school kids on weekends--turns out the parents (Pacific Islanders mostly) just wouldn't feed their kids when they weren't getting school food. If churches didn't provide, they didn't get anything. You and I find it hard to imagine, but that's what we were told.
You can say the charity is creating a moral hazard, but those kids will go hungry if it's not done.

Somewhat related, recently had a conversation with a medical expert on protein-deficiency malnutrition in third world countries. Seems it's largely due to the most nutritious food going to the men, then the women, and the kids get what's left over. Our church sponsors a program in Malawi that has been teaching about the importance of good nutrition for kids.
I think the cultural tradition of kids being last in line for food is a large part of the problem for some places and some people.

In most cases, let's call it what it is.

It's a choice. There are so many jibs, assistance programs, charities, etc that in 2019 being homeless is a choice.

There are so many grifters that abuse said programs. But at the end, despite the tearful commercials, it is a choice.