I went through Army basic Training at Fort Dix, 1983 1982.
Air Force basic in 1983, was proficiency advanced, and I don’t remember much, except PT was in tennis shoes. (Ft. Dix was combat boots)

During that time I am almost certain that we were taught to stand at attention and face the flag during the National Anthem when not in uniform.

During the Pledge of Allegiance we were taught to place our right hand over our heart.

My internet search shows me that now the Flag Code specifies placing hand over heart during the National Anthem is specified in the code.

First I remember of this becoming an issue was with criticism of Barack Obama in a widely published photograph.

At that time I thought the criticism was unjustified, based on my training at Fort Dix.

It seems strange placing my hand over heart during the National Anthem as I believe it was drilled into me to stand at attention.

Honestly, I now cannot tell you for certain what I was taught in ‘83.

Can anyone confirm what we were taught during the early 80’s.
If my memory is correct, then when did this change?

Edited the title from Slightly older veterans to service-members and veterans, as I don’t know what is currently being taught.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kimber1911,

It's always been my understanding that the hand on heart is for civilians and the salute at attention is for military in uniform and also veterans who choose to salute, otherwise they would place hand on heart as well.

You don't stand at military attention per se when placing hand on heart, but are standing upright and respectfully.

Boot camp NRTC San Diego 1988.

It was drilled into us that out of uniform (at that time in PT gear) that we face the flag while standing at attention. Thumbs where the seam of your trousers would be.

In uniform, you stand at attention (or salute if under cover).
Out of uniform, hand over heart.

Once Congress amended the code to allow Veterans to salute, you have that option (I only do if wearing a hat).

quote:

Originally posted by Gibb:
In uniform, you stand at attention (or salute if under cover).
Out of uniform, hand over heart.

Once Congress amended the code to allow Veterans to salute, you have that option (I only do if wearing a hat).

Well, that there is another issue that complicate it a bit. The Navy and Marines only ever salute "under cover" (wearing headgear). The Army and AF salute both wearing headgear and without. Not sure why that happened that way?

Boot Camp 1978 In uniform stand at attention face and salute the colors. Out of uniform was stand at attention and face the colors. As a civilian I stand at ease with my hand over my heart. I never understand people saluting without a cover because I was taught you only salute under cover.

Believe I found my answer as to when the code changed, 7 July 1976.
Now it is interesting that two SIGforum members from 1978 and 1988 also remember being taught in boot camp to stand at attention during the National Anthem, when in civilian clothes.

My guess is that it is a matter of usage of the word “should”.
The military must have taken exception and taught us to stand at attention.
Now however I believe the military teaches new recruits to place their hand over heart.
Am I correct?
What is currently being taught in boot camp?


U.S.C Title 36, Subtitle I, Part A, Chapter 3, §301. National anthem
(a) Designation.-The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.-During a rendition of the national anthem-

(1) when the flag is displayed-

(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

I do what Gibb does.
Boot camp (1988)had us come to attention at the Nation Anthem and salute if in uniform and covered. in civilian clothing we came to attention and placed the right hand over our heart.

Then the rules were added that veterans could salute .

Coast Guard and Navy only salute if covered. And we only wear covers indoors if armed, or Captains Mast or Court Martial is in process.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Coast Guard and Navy only salute if covered. And we only wear covers indoors if armed, or Captains Mast or Court Martial is in process.

I think when reporting for pay, too (indoors); but that was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

This came up at pre-July 4th concert in which I was singing with SD Master Chorale, standing next to a young active-duty naval officer. On two nights we performed the Star-Spangled Banner with the symphony, and were using our music.
On the third night we were singing in unison with the audience; at that time most of us put our hands over hearts, since we weren’t using the sheet music; same with the naval officer.
I was wondering what protocol was for this; from the above, since he was not under cover, a salute would not have been an option? Or would it?

Air Force Basic in 1980, I seem to remember in civilian clothes stand at attention with hand over heart.

My personal standard for civilians :

stop what you are doing, face flag, hat off, erect posture.

hand over heart optional

sing with the music optional

basically - just stop what you are doing and be respectful for 2 mins

--------------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by 95flhr:
Air Force Basic in 1980, I seem to remember in civilian clothes stand at attention with hand over heart.

So now we have:
1 Army ‘82 at attention thumbs on pants seam.
1 Navy ‘88 at attention thumbs on pants seam.
1 Navy ‘88 at attention hand over heart.
1 Marine (date unknown) hand over heart.
1 Air Force ‘80 at attention hand over heart.

The responses so far show no consistency on what was taught in basic training.
Is it simply lizardman_u and my memory failing?

A civilian or military out of uniform should stand and face the colors (flag) or in the direction of the music at the position of attention.

I personally expect folks to stop what they are doing unless they are doing security, are hurt or performing some other serious task and stand facing the flag.

Civvies dont all know the position of attention so thats not my personal thing. Just standing or doing the best you can.

Lets face it, theres some who would be more respectful not singing so thats not really on my list either. Just demonstrating your respect. YMMV

I think “U.S.C Title 36, Subtitle I, Part A, Chapter 3, §301. National anthem” pretty well covers it.

“should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart”

The reasoning for my questioning was that during a recent playing of our National Anthem, I stood at attention, and did not place my hand over my heart.
Obviously this was not an attempt to protest or show disrespect.

If feels awkward holding my hand over my heart, as that was something we do for a pledge, as in the Pledge of Allegiance.

My instinct goes towards what I believe I was taught to do at Fort Dix in ‘82 for the National Anthem, and in Elementary School for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Interesting that it seems we were not all taught the same thing during basic training in the 80’s.
I need to find my ARMY SMART booklet, to verify my memory of what I was trained to do.

I've been to many a sporting event where the National Anthem is played before the event. Everyone has their hand over the heart unless they are veterans, who can salute, if they wish.
When I was in basic (1972), we saluted in uniform (Army). out of uniform, we held our hands over our hearts. To this day, if I am in uniform (Federal Security), I will put my American Flag insignia over my heart (left side) and salute the flag if the Antem is played!

When I joined the Army in 1965, if civilian clothes when the National Anthem or “To the Colors” was played, one was to stand at attention facing the music.

If one was in a vehicle, the rule was to dismount and stand at attention. I clearly recall, however, that the Marine Corps had a different rule. They were supposed to stop their vehicle, but remain inside when Retreat and To the Colors were played. The reason I know that was because I heard of an incident from one of the Marines in my counterintelligence agent class at Fort Holabird in 1968. He followed the Marine Corps rule and was jumped by an MP who wanted to know why he hadn’t gotten out of his car.

A few years ago veterans were “given permission” to salute if desired rather than hand on the chest (I had been doing that for many years before).

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:
I think when reporting for pay, too (indoors); but that was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

Dunno about the Navy, but I did get cash when I was in Bootcamp, and we were in a line nut to butt in the passageway, stepped up, gave our Name, rank, SSN and signed the sheet...never covered, put our money in a pocket and then we’re taken to the uniform shop where we had to pay, then to get haircuts-where we paid, and were given some time at the PX where we spent the rest. Always indoors and never covered..

/drift

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911
So now we have:
1 Army ‘82 at attention thumbs on pants seam.
1 Navy ‘88 at attention thumbs on pants seam.
1 Navy USCG‘88 at attention hand over heart.
1 Marine (date unknown) hand over heart.
1 Air Force ‘80 at attention hand over heart.

FIFY