Mbinky - The Ordinance shot pics are awesome, from the new version of the M88, to the striped main gun components. Thank you. It’s been a long long time from my days in the Automotive Department at Fort Knox. Early development of what is now the Abrams series of tanks was underway then, and we got to watch field trials including main gun(@ that time) test firing. My experience was with M60s in Germany, and M48A2/3 in RVN. The Abrams is another world.
Chilling to watch what’s going on now overseas, to what we in the 3D Cav trained for but hoped never would happen.
Regards to all.
Blackhorse4

Thanks to Flashguy re Recoil spring. Forgot how heavy duty those “systems” really are.
Blackhorse4

quote:

Originally posted by Udo:

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
I would pay $1000 for a chance to witness live tank practice. (Or big artillery, for that matter.)

flashguy

I had the privilege to to act as a loader in an all officer crew doing a full round load M60 demonstration in Graffenvohr Germany. At the end the empty brass was at waste level and very warm. I will never forget.

In my 9+ years in the 3rd Armored Division I got to see (and hear) a lot of tanks, armored personnel carriers, etc. Nearly all that time was spent along the East/West German border, watching the East Germans and Russians watching us. Our alert position was across the Fulda Gap, and our mission was to keep the bad guys on their side of that pass for 3 days. After that, any survivors among us could infiltrate to other units.

I was stationed in Butzbach, not far from Frankfurt, and every time we moved out on alert, or convoy, we had to redo those cobblestone streets. Those full-tracked vehicles could really pile up those cobble stones.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackhorse4:
Thanks to Flashguy re Recoil spring. Forgot how heavy duty those “systems” really are.
Blackhorse4

Actually, that was a joke. The spring is one of the hundreds used to support the buildings inside Cheyenne Mountain.

flashguy

Flashguy - I stand corrected!! Easy to tell once I rechecked Mbinky’s excellent pics; should have paid closer attention.
Regards,
Blackhorse4

Our newest tanks have an active protection system. This will shoot down enemy anti tank missiles before they hit the tank. Also, the frontal armor on an M1 can likely defeat most direct attack (ie non-top attack) shaped charge missiles.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Does this mean an end to US tank advantages or are ours more resilient to the counterattacks Russia has faced recently?

I will say our tank advantages are crew survivability.

When the Abrams was designed they looked at 3 things:

Lethality: 120mm Rhinemetal cannon

Maneuverability: 40 MPH secondary roads

Survivability: Crew is separated from ammo

We have all been watching Russian tanks light up like roman candles. That's their two piece ammo and auto loader system. The crew literally is sitting on a powder keg. I have buddies that wrote check marks in sharpie from their TC station on how many T72's they smoked.

Gunner select HEAT.

Done.

I had a tank in AFG that hit an IED. You can see the blow off panels from the ammo compartment go skyward.

Crew got out.

Way different than a Russian tank.

I've mentioned bits before:

I was a Driver, Gunner, and Tank Commander in an M1 and M1A1 for my time in service, and the parts of my time spent actually operating the Tank was by far amongst the highlights of my entire ARMY experience, as it's a big badass machine, no doubt.

I've driven a bunch of them onto and off of train cars, too, that was awesome but sketchy, the tank tracks hang over the sides of the flatbed train cars, not much margin for error, and you can't see shit, yourself, have guys directing you...

I have loaded the main gun many times in training, 105mm and 120mm, but being the Loader was never my job. I went straight to Driver after Basic/OSUT for 19k, then was a Gunner, then the XO's Gunner, then had my own Tank by the end of my 4yrs.

I have fired shitloads of main gun rounds in training, leading up to and during Desert Shield/Storm and during Basic/OSUT at Ft Knox in the summer of 1990. Forum member Tanksoldier was in my Basic Training barracks at Ft. Knox, we figured out years ago.

We didn't know each other, there were five platoons and about 160 dudes, and a dozen drill sergeants all told, just in our physical building on a few floors, Disney barracks there. Ft. Knox is a hot humid beast in the summer, 16.5wks for us.

I trained on M1 serial number 0001, the very first complete M1 ever was in use for training when I went through, and it was pointed out to us, saw the number plates welded on the Hull and Turret. Driving them is a blast, too, and they haul ass.

Probably 90% of my experience in the ARMY was boring, tedious, bullshit, but the Tanks, man, they were pretty amazing, and shooting a gun that big is super fun, exactly as you'd imagine, and being inside when the big breech recoils is wild.

That breech is a chunky monkey and it recoils about a foot, all inside the crew compartment of the Turret, right between the Loader and Tank Commander positions, it's not fucking around, some West Point cadet got his melon squished that summer.

The old 105mm shell casings were huge, and hot/warm, and all between your legs as Loader unless you were allowed to chuck them out of the Loader's hatch after firing, but they pile up kind of fast and have to be tossed or put back in the honeycombs.

My personal best as Loader in a live fire exercise at Ft. Hood was loading four shells in under 15sec total during a four-shot rapid-fire engagement on moving targets from 600m to 1800m or some such, a giant range with moving wooden targets.

I've done similar numbers as Gunner, I was an excellent Gunner in live fire and the simulators we had, I was always top 2-3 in my unit, made rank fast, did very well, made the XO and CO look good and had a slightly better experience than most for it.

Never saw combat, but practiced a shitload, thought we were going anyday but didn't.

Anyway, those Tanks are fun and pretty cool machines overall. If you can pay to drive or shoot one, do, it's fun. Plus shooting the 50 from the TC position is tons of fun, nothing like a .50, that sound, too, it's a glorious sound, really.

That was awsome to read 46and2. And thank you for doing that. I would love to see a live fire excercise. Maybe someday. I enjoy the big mobile artillary I get to see on line also.

My guard unit was armor for decades. Then when they force restructured we became a light cavalry unit, losing our tanks. Most dyed in the wool tankers either retired if they had the time in, or left to find tank units in other states. The tanker and his ride have a special bond

I hope they are on their way to Poland, the Baltic countries, or Slovakia.

IIRC, Ft. Hood has space for twelve tanks at once doing large live fire exercises on a huge range, on the move, with a few big observation towers the brass watches from like giant fire towers in the forest. I always wanted to watch from the tower once.

Ft Hood is enormous, something like 22 miles across the widest spot from one gate to another.

I passed 6 OshKosh Hets with tank trailers today on the south bound highway. No equipment on board. That is one heap big truck. So ugly its cool.

We have a major east/west rail way just south of town. It not uncommon to see long trains of military equipment going either direction. Just the past few days I have seen two long trains going east with 15+ M1's on them along with Bradleys, humvees, and all the support vehicles.

Does anyone know the model designation of that newer style of M88? I have always been intrigued by tank recovery vehicles.

M88A3 I believe.

Yep, M88A3

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
As we've see in recent Russia-Ukraine conflict tanks are more susceptible to easily carried, deployed, and fired weapons that are cost effective and mobile.

Does this mean an end to US tank advantages or are ours more resilient to the counterattacks Russia has faced recently?

What we're seeing in Ukraine, is textbook how NOT to use your armor.
Much like how Saddam used his tanks in '91 & '03, Russia has seemingly ignored all guidelines regarding combined arms, let alone having any supporting infantry to screen their tanks. Trying to do thunder runs into enemy territory, while outrunning your logistics tail, and having limited air or artillery support, while ignoring intelligence about the opposition having modern stand-off anti-armor weapons.
Yeah, Russia is doing it all wrong....