I am researching the possibility of a home video security system.

The cameras I can figure out, will likely be IP Dahua and the actual install will be no issue with my background, but I have concerns and questions about software and storage.

Yes. ipcamtalk Spent hours there LOL!

I kept current PC and MAC computers at home for years but the last PC I owned ran XP. We ran Windows 2000 at work and me personally a Mac in my position. All Mac for years now.

It seems the go to software is Blue Iris, Windows only. My main concerns are how hard will it be to learn and upkeep a PC running Windows 10 and Blue Iris. OR is it even necessary? Would running a NVR be sufficient. Lots of people go on tirelessly about how Blue Iris if far superior…

Does it make any sense to try a NVR and add a Blue Iris box later if I see the need?

Thoughts please…

My house is generally a Apple computer domain and that's one reason I went with an NVR (Hikvision).

I use VM Ware Fusion to run a Win10 desktop on my iMac so I can run the ONE software program I have that does not have a Mac version.

So with the NVR and VM Ware, I figured I could log in and manage the NVR on the Windows side of things. What a pain in the ass. No joy.

So I just use the interface on the NVR directly with a mouse. Kind of sucks, but it works.

I've read good things about Blue Iris as well, and was tempted to buy a Win10 box to help manage everything - all the IP addresses and settings in the NVR.

If I had to do it again, I might skip the NVR and buy the computer and use Blue Iris. Not really sure.

I just don't find anyone running BI on a Mac via a windows install. Has to be a good reason for that... other than the ipcamtalk forum owner worshiping at the alter of BI and being a Mac hater at the same time!

I'd have to buy a Mac to dedicate to Windows and BI and still learn Windows... a silly / expensive way to go that might not even work well.
Also, I don't find any good/cheap Mac substitute for BI.

I understand there is very little reason for BI to port a version for Mac. Most people dedicate a computer for just BI it seems, so there is little demand to pay for a $$$ Mac vs a $ PC to do the same job.

As I see it now my top two choices are, buy a Win PC and BI OR an NVR and settle for some diminished capabilities.

Ease of use is very important to me, perhaps more so than features, probably. However I'm new to this, so I don't even know what I don't know yet! Cost probably runs in third place in importance...

IMO if yo want no maintenance, get an NVR. If you don't mind working on your computers, Blue Iris offers tons of capability for a reasonable price including a PC to run it IMO.

Blue Iris is the PC-Desktop version of a VMS.
If you really want a one the big boys use then you will have some initial pains of more hardware, some technical setup challenges as well as having to pay for it.
These VMS programs generally can be used with a low number of cameras at a pretty reasonable price.
The easy-app ones are reserved for the low end consumer market but a real VMS really is nice.
Blue Iris falls in the middle, IMO.
Depends on what you need.

I use Video Insight (bought by Panasonic a couple of years ago) and I think it is free for less than 10 cams but not sure or it is free when you use their cams (Panasonic or Advidia).

Milestone is a favorite of a lot of installers.

YMMV

A list (2017) of Free VMS
Sorry my cut and paste lost the links but Google one if you like how it sounds.

https://ipvm.com/reports/free-vms-software-directory


The thing is that you can try them out not just ask a few people not in the business what they like.


Open Source/Free

Open source options for VMSes are limited, with only a handful available:
• Bluecherry - Free with optional paid support subscription. Linux, Windows, Mac OSX support, ONVIF/RTSP camera support.
• Camlytics - Free, unlimited camera VMS. Paid version adds video analytics, camera events, and heat mapping features.
• iSpy - Visual Studio 2015 source code is available as well as precompiled installable versions.
• Kerberos - Free Raspberry PI based VMS, Kerberos.io connects to IP cameras through RTSP streams. Optional people counting analytics and cloud storage of alarm/motion events.
• motionEyes - Open source, Linux distribution that turns a single-board computer (Raspberry PI) and USB camera into a IP camera with embedded VMS.
• OpenCVR/Rapidvms from veyesys
• Shinobi - Open source VMS, developed in node.js
• Valkka - Open source VMS, python codebase, ONVIF camera support
• veyesys Rapidvms [link no longer available] - Offers opensource code for most of the VMS platforms, but some components are only available as binaries.
• Zoneminder - Offers precompiled packages for linux distros, and also open source code.

Free With Restricted Use

These products all work without any timeout period, but generally have limitations around the number of channels or the amount of storage supported in the free version.
• Alnet Systems Netstation - 4 channels, 7 days recording, software login required every 8 hours
• Argus DVR [link no longer available] - Fully functional demo, displays "Unregistered" watermark on video
• Arteco Me [link no longer available] - 2 channels
• ATVideo VMS - No restrictions
• Axxon Next - 4 channels, 1TB storage
• Devline Line [link no longer available] - 16 channels, no time limit, but only offers live viewing, no recording
• Eocortex - video streaming stops every hour, limitation of up to 400 IP channels and 1 server, up to 4 GB storage; free full-featured trial upon request
• GeniusVision NVR - 16 channels, non-commercial use only
• Herospeed VMS - 64 channels, but partially stolen from Milestone / Video Insight
• ipConfigure Orchid - 4 Channels/128GB storage free. Raspberry Pi version with no hard limits, effectively limited to 4-8 cameras, depending on resolution
• ISS SecureOS [link no longer available] - 4 channels
• Luxriot Evo - 1080p max resolution supported
• March Networks Command Lite - 6 channels, 1 week of recording
• Milestone Essential - 8 channels, no storage limits, requires annual renewal for free license key
• NovoSun - 64 channels
• Pelco DigitalSentry - 4 channels
• Pelco VideoXpert Professional - 1 year trial (renewable) for 4 channels
• Sighthound - 1 channel, low resolution only
• Trassir - 8 channels

Free For Trial Period

Products in this group generally offer full functionality, but timeout after a limited period.
• Aimetis Symphony - 30 day trial
• Avigilon Control Center - 30 day trial of Enterprise product, sales people can provide 180 day trial keys
• Axis Camera Station - 30 day trial
• Blue Iris - 15 day trial with watermark on video
• CathexisVision - 5 channels, 60 day trial
• Digital Watchdog Spectrum - 4 cameras, 30 day trial
• Digifort VMS - 30 day trial
• Exacq - 45 day trial, request key here
• Hanwha SSM - 45 day trial with all features, free with limited features after 45 days
• Hanwha Wisenet Wave - 30 day trial, up to 4 cameras
• IndigoVision Control Center - 5 camera/45 day trial, longer trial periods can be requested
• Logiware go1984 - 30 day trial
• Ksenos [link no longer available] - 90 day trial
• Macroscop [link no longer available] - 30 day trial
• Milestone XProtect - 30 day trial of any version, 8 channels/5 days storage
• netavis Observer - 30 day trial, 20 channels
• Network Optix nxWitness - 4 cameras, 30 day trial
• OnSSI Occularis - 30 day trial, requires providing project/user details
• SecuritySpy - (runs on OS X) 30 day trial
• SeeTec Cayuga - 30 day trial
• Sony RealShot Manager 30 day trial for up to 32 channels
• Vicon Valerus - 30 day trial
• VideoInsight VI Monitor - 60 day trial, up to 99 cameras
• Wavestore VMS [link no longer available] - 30 day trial

Free With Same-Brand Cameras

Several manufacturers have VMSes that do not require a license when used with their own brand of cameras, these are listed here.
• ACTi NVR - Free for use with ACTi cameras + 1 free channel for non-ACTi cameras
• Axis Camera Companion - Only works with Axis cameras, 16 channel limit
• GeoVision G-VMS - Free for up to 32 GeoVision devices
• Mobotix Control Center - Free for Mobotix cameras
• Sony RealShot Manager - 9 channels free for use with Sony cameras
• Ubiquiti Unifi NVR - Free for Ubiquiti cameras
• Video Insight VI Monitor - Free when used with Panasonic cameras and Advidia
• Vivotek VAST - 32 channels free when used with Vivotek cameras

I use Blue Iris at home. It works well and is priced for my budget.

I will second using a Milestone NVR if you want something for heavy duty use. I really like the pre-licensed Husky units they came out with a couple of hears ago.

Mark

Blue Iris is out for us. We have two very rarely-used MS-Win7 Pro installations in the ensigmatic household that will be replaced by Linux or Macs.

Currently I'm using Surveillance Station on my Synology NAS. It's "just ok." Can't really recommend it because licenses for additional cameras beyond the first two free ones are more expensive than the quality of the software justifies, IMO. (My main issues are with the mobile device apps. Otherwise it's adequate.)

Unfortunately, I don't have any good suggestions for you. I'd say smschulz is your go to guy in this respect, as he has a lot of experience in this area.

If you're ok with all Dahua cameras, perhaps a Dahua NVR?

As for:

quote:

Yes. ipcamtalk Spent hours there LOL!

...

It seems the go to software is Blue Iris, Windows only.

As I noted in a reply to member ryan81986: Take what you read on ipcamtalk.com with a grain of salt. There's a lot of useful information there, but there's also a lot of dogma that runs anywhere from not entirely accurate to completely wrong.

Part of that dogma being Blue Iris is the best surveillance system software in the entire whole world and Microsoft Windows is just wonderful. It is a mortal sin to even think to attempt challenging that dogma on ipcamtalk. If you allow as how you don't want to run MS-Windows for what you feel are good and just reasons, you'll be castigated by the site's owner.

As for Dahua cameras: I've five of them and I'm happy enough with them. Empiretechandy is your go to guy for those. I suspect you know this already.

You can be all Mac or all Linux or no MS at all in the clients.
However, you may need MS on the "server" if it so is required.
Most NVR's (essentially a lightweight server running a built in Linux variation) are an all-in-one solution.
Many NAS units offer a limited function app some with licenses and some free that support video cams.
Most NAS unit software are pretty inadequate albeit has some functionality.
A VMS or NVR unit does not require a ton of computing power to be effective at least with a low number of cams so a low end Windows Machine with enough storage could work as a VMS server.
There are some options {cough - Blue Iris} that can take up some CPU time if not properly configured.
YMMV

quote:

Part of that dogma being Blue Iris is the best surveillance system software in the entire whole world and Microsoft Windows is just wonderful

I would never say ANYTHING is perfect.

They are all tools and use them properly and then measure the results, the make adjustments from there.

quote:

There's a lot of useful information there, but there's also a lot of dogma that runs anywhere from not entirely accurate to completely wrong.

You find that everywhere...including here sometimes (not pointing specifically to anyone or anything).

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
There's a lot of useful information there, but there's also a lot of dogma that runs anywhere from not entirely accurate to completely wrong.

You find that everywhere...including here sometimes (not pointing specifically to anyone or anything).

Maybe I notice it more there because, unlike, for example, firearms, in which I regard myself at the lower end of the totem pole in experience and knowledge, most of what they discuss there are things in which I'm more than a little experienced

quote:

It seems the go to software is Blue Iris, Windows only. My main concerns are how hard will it be to learn and upkeep a PC running Windows 10 and Blue Iris.

I have Blue Iris on Win 10. It's kind of a hobby for me, and at first I spent many hours tweaking to get the alerts to be what I wanted. There is a lot to learn at first.

But now, I spend maybe a few minutes a day reviewing footage, and that's about it.

Windows 10 hasn't been an issue at all. In fact IMHO it's the best windows yet.

WOW! Ask and ye shall receive.

Thanks so much all for taking the time to reply, it will take a while to work through all the advice.

I would not hesitate using Blue Iris. I have used it for almost five years. Earlier this year I purchased a NVR and set it up thinking I would change. After playing with the NVR for a month, I decided to stay with Blue Iris and Windows 10.

Much has been written about Blue Iris so I won't go on other than to say I doubt that you would go wrong choosing that platform.

Pertaining to cameras stay away from Chinese cameras with Chinese firmware. Ip Cam talk has a preferred vendor that supplies Duhua international cameras with upgradeable firmware. I can't vouch for the supplier, although many do, as I use a Hikvision Clone camera available from a US supplier. Also look at IP Cam Talk cameras; they are Hikvision clones.

Don't scrimp on a POE Switch, get a good one with more ports than you think you need. Your need/desire for cameras will expand once you put some up.

The learning curve can be a bit steep on IP cameras but it is an interesting undertaking.

quote:

one with more ports than you think you need

^^^ Yup you will ALWAYS need more ports.

Check my recent post for some similar info, I'm currently building my system.

I went with blue iris and while I don't have it up and running yet, I like that I can shop around for different cameras and don't have to worry for the most part about compatibility. Since I'm fairly frugal and like to shop for deals I bought a refurb Win10 HP PC from Microcenter for a couple hundred bucks, and a used 24-port POE network switch off craigslist for $100. I'll have an update on my post probably tomorrow when I get out of work.

I am a moron when it comes to most things computer related.
That being said I use BlueIris on a dedicated PC. Granted lots of help and tweaks from folks on here but it is actually not bad.
A bit of a learning curve but once you figure it out for one camera it is all pretty much the same.

As for learning windows. Windows 10 is not much different than XP for simple user interface stuff.

smschulz, do you have any non-MS-Win solutions you could recommend that are camera-manufacturer-agnostic, aren't prohibitively expensive, and work well?

Currently I'm using Surveillance Station on my Synology NAS, but I'm losing faith in it. Their mobile app, DS Cam, is not, and never has been reliable--especially on less-than-perfect cellular connections. That reduces a lot of its usefulness for me. Their tech support is responsive, but there's only so much they can do for broken software. Their developers appear to be entirely unresponsive to community input.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
smschulz, do you have any non-MS-Win solutions you could recommend that are camera-manufacturer-agnostic, aren't prohibitively expensive, and work well?

Currently I'm using Surveillance Station on my Synology NAS, but I'm losing faith in it. Their mobile app, DS Cam, is not, and never has been reliable--especially on less-than-perfect cellular connections. That reduces a lot of its usefulness for me. Their tech support is responsive, but there's only so much they can do for broken software. Their developers appear to be entirely unresponsive to community input.

I (obviously) haven't done any of the Linux VMS but you could scroll above to the list of VMS's above I listed (and a link) to see which ones fit your criteria.
Most have a trial at least so you can check them out.
I know some may have a cost but if it is not a recurring cost then it might be worth it in the long run.

EXACQ for example is highly rated and Linux supported but I don't know the costs, it has a trial.

https://www.exacq.com/support/downloads.php
https://www.exacq.com/config/

These VMS really get out of hand if you have a LOT of cams hence the Enterprise push but in many cases for low cam use it is not bad and sometimes FREE.

Also IPVM.com is a good source but they limit access to a lot if you are not a member.
If your email is good (or send it to me - mine is in the profile) I can get you a month of FREE access.

I imagine you can set up your Linux Server and try a bunch of them out.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I (obviously) haven't done any of the Linux VMS but you could scroll above to the list of VMS's above I listed (and a link) to see which ones fit your criteria.

Thanks for the follow-up. Ok, I'll do that.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
EXACQ for example is highly rated and Linux supported but I don't know the costs, it has a trial.

Looks good except their iOS app has a 1.2 rating out of 5 Good news is it looks like they're responsive to customer issues--maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
These VMS really get out of hand if you have a LOT of cams hence the Enterprise push but in many cases for low cam use it is not bad and sometimes FREE.

I don't mind paying a "reasonable" fee. Heck, I've paid over $200 for additional Synology Surveillance Station licenses. But the stuff has to work well. Synology's SS does not. Not for me, anyway. Not for my needs.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Also IPVM.com is a good source but they limit access to a lot if you are not a member.
If your email is good (or send it to me - mine is in the profile) I can get you a month of FREE access.

Let me take a look around. I may take you up on that. Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I imagine you can set up your Linux Server and try a bunch of them out.

Don't have the time to spend on it right now. Gotta get this garage fixed before the snow flies in earnest. And my Linux server's OS is in sore need of an update. About time to update the SSDs and add more RAM, too. That'll be a winter project.

I am not looking forward to that project

Thanks again for the follow-up.