U.S. forces killed scores of Russian mercenaries in Syria
But I thought President Trump was a russian stooge? /sarc
quote:
U.S. Strikes Killed Scores of Russia Fighters in Syria, Sources Say
U.S. forces killed scores of Russian mercenaries in Syria last week in what may be the deadliest clash between citizens of the former foes since the Cold War, according to one U.S. official and three Russians familiar with the matter.
More than 200 contract soldiers, mostly Russians fighting on behalf of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad, died in a failed attack on a base held by U.S. and mainly Kurdish forces in the oil-rich Deir Ezzor region, two of the Russians said. The U.S. official put the death toll at about 100, with 200 to 300 injured.
The Russian assault may have been a rogue operation, yeah right underscoring the complexity of a conflict that started as a domestic crackdown only to morph into a proxy war involving Islamic extremists, stateless Kurds and regional powers Iran, Turkey and now Israel. Russia’s military said it had nothing to do with the attack and the U.S. accepted the claim. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis called the whole thing “perplexing,” but provided no further details.
President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, declined to comment on reports of Russian casualties, saying the Kremlin only tracks data on the country’s armed forces. Putin talked with U.S. President Donald Trump by phone Monday, but the military action in Syria wasn’t discussed, he said.
“This is a big scandal and a reason for an acute international crisis,” said Vladimir Frolov, a former Russian diplomat and lawmaker who’s now an independent political analyst. “But Russia will pretend nothing happened.”
Putin, with Iran’s help, turned the tide of the seven-year war by committing air- and manpower to buoy Assad’s beleaguered forces in 2015, quieting U.S. calls for the Syrian leader’s immediate removal. With Islamic State, which once controlled large swaths of Syria, now largely defeated, rival powers and militias are fighting in various combinations to fill the vacuum. Russia, Iran, Israel and Turkey have all had aircraft shot down in or near Syria this month.
Artillery, Tanks
Last week’s offensive began about 8 kilometers (5 miles) east of the Euphrates River de-confliction line late Feb. 7, when pro-Assad forces fired rounds and advanced in a “battalion-sized formation supported by artillery, tanks, multiple-launch rocket systems and mortars,” Colonel Thomas F. Veale, a spokesman for the U.S. military, said in a statement.
The U.S., which has advisers stationed at the base alongside Syrian Democratic Forces troops, responded with aircraft and artillery fire.
“Coalition officials were in regular communication with Russian counterparts before, during and after the thwarted, unprovoked attack,” Veale said. No fatalities were reported on the coalition side and “enemy vehicles and personnel who turned around and headed back west were not targeted.”
It’s not clear who was paying the Russian contingent, whether it was Russia directly, Syria, Iran or a third party. Reports in Russian media have said Wagner -- a shadowy organization known as Russia’s answer to Blackwater, now called Academi -- was hired by Assad or his allies to guard Syrian energy assets in exchange for oil concessions.
“No one wants to start a world war over a volunteer or a mercenary who wasn’t sent by the state and was hit by Americans,” Vitaly Naumkin, a senior adviser to Russia’s government on Syria, said in an interview.
Yury Barmin, a Middle East analyst at the Russian International Affairs Council, a think tank set up by the Kremlin, said Russia supports Assad’s efforts to reclaim the “crucial” eastern region of Deir Ezzor to help fund his national reconstruction and reconciliation plan, which the U.S. opposes.
Russia signed a “road map” agreement with Assad’s government last month to assist in rebuilding the nation’s electricity network. On Tuesday, Energy Minister Alexander Novak told reporters in Moscow that Russian companies are interested in contracts to help refurbish damaged oil pipelines and wells.
‘Illegal Presence’
While Russia’s Defense Ministry didn’t mention mercenaries in its statement, it did say 25 “Syrian” fighters were injured, without elaborating. It accused the U.S. of using its “illegal presence” in Syria as an excuse to “seize economic assets,” even as it kept lines of communication with the U.S. open.
Assad’s government in Damascus called the U.S. military action “barbaric” and a “war crime.”
The death toll from the skirmish, already about five times more than Russia’s official losses in Syria, is still rising, according to one mercenary commander who said by phone that dozens of his wounded men are still being treated at military hospitals in St. Petersburg and Moscow.
Most of those killed and injured were Russian and Ukrainian, many of them veterans of the separatist conflict in eastern Ukraine, according to Alexander Ionov, who runs a Kremlin-funded group that fosters ties to separatists and who’s personally fought alongside pro-government forces in Syria.
Grigory Yavlinsky, a longtime Russian opposition politician who helped steer democratic reforms after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, called on the authorities to come clean about what happened.
“If there has been mass deaths of Russian citizens in Syria, then the relevant authorities, including the general staff of the Russian armed forces, have a duty to inform the country about this and decide who bears responsibility,” Yavlinsky, who is running against Putin in next month’s election, said on Twitter.
...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV
"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV
February 13, 2018, 11:12 AM
egregore
quote:
More than 200 contract soldiers, mostly Russians fighting on behalf of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad, died in a failed attack on a base held by U.S. and mainly Kurdish forces in the oil-rich Deir Ezzor region, two of the Russians said.
So, not working on Russia's behalf, and the aggressors? AFAIC, no humans were involved.
February 13, 2018, 11:17 AM
bigdeal
So what's the ROI on that collusion investment between the Ruskies and President Trump? Sure doesn't appear to be returning dividends.
----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
February 13, 2018, 11:23 AM
220-9er
Seems like good news on this occasion but I hope we can quietly back out of there ASAP and not get stuck in that shi*hole country any longer than necessary.
Anything like the masked soldiers in unmarked Russian uniforms (known euphemistically as "little green men") that back in 2014 suddenly invaded the Ukraine from Russia and annexed the Crimea, while fully equipped with Russian military uniforms, weaponry, and vehicles? Russia claimed they must have just been spontaneously organized "local self-defense groups" that sprung up overnight, and probably got all that equipment from "local sporting goods stores". But they were actually Russian troops, merely with insignia removed to give Russia nominal (farcical) deniability over their illegal invasion/annexation of part of the Ukraine.This message has been edited. Last edited by: RogueJSK,
February 13, 2018, 12:28 PM
Il Cattivo
That would follow.
quote:
Most of those killed were Russian or Ukranian, may of them veterans of the separatist conflict in Eastern Ukraine, according to Alexander Ionov, who runs a Kremlin-funded group that fosters ties to separatists and who's personally fought alongside pro-government forces in Syria.
So. The US can openly reinforce, resupply or otherwise support its troops in the conflict, who were clearly acting in self-defense. Putin has to do everything to support Russian troops, who launched an unprovoked attack on US forces, under the table. Did anyone really expect a major Russian victory during the current Administration?
February 13, 2018, 12:37 PM
Voshterkoff
Well that's not too bright.
February 13, 2018, 12:39 PM
thunderson
That's a hell of a combination. U.S. forces organizing a bunch of Kurds. The average merc really doesn't want to come up against either one, much less both. Our boys are wired tight and the average Kurd fighter isn't remotely scared of engaging.
I have the heart of a lion.......and a lifetime ban from the Toronto Zoo.- Unknown
February 13, 2018, 12:50 PM
deepocean
I am 100% uncomfortable with the US having boots on the ground in Syria. It reminds me of Beirut in the 1980's. Why we continue to get in the middle of civil wars, where there is no clear idea of who the "good guys" are, what it would mean to "win", or how we would get there is beyond me.
I have no problem supporting the Kurds, but do we have to be on the ground with them to do it?
It's not that I'm afraid. I want us to focus on rebuilding our military without getting distracted by things not in our direct interest.
February 13, 2018, 12:52 PM
gearhounds
Our forces already are seen as doing pretty well against shadowy, hard to pin down and identify insurgent types; this should adequetly reinforce to the world how we do against open and organized forces in clearly defined settings. You can bet the Ruskies took note of the results.
“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
February 13, 2018, 01:38 PM
Il Cattivo
Yep. The only problem is that some of those little green men may have survived to make it home with "lessons learned".
February 13, 2018, 01:50 PM
c1steve
Although everyone is wary of US lives at risk in someone else's civil war, these skirmishes large and small provide excellent OTJ training.
Some day in the future, the experience our troops are currently receiving may save American lives. Also Iran, Syria, etc. may think twice about pushing the USA around, now that we have a new sheriff.
-c1steve
February 13, 2018, 01:55 PM
bubbatime
That's a staggeringly uncomfortable amount of Russian "soldiers" killed. Russia usually believes in an eye for an eye, but hopefully nothing comes of it. Can you imagine 200 hundred blackwater USA contractors being killed by the Russians? It would be an outrage.
This will hit the Russian media and will empower them to rattle their saber even more.
______________________________________________________ Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow
February 13, 2018, 01:57 PM
LDD
Whatever flag you wear: Poke the Eagle, get the claws.
They attacked a US base, not the other way around--should have known what they were getting in to.
February 13, 2018, 02:02 PM
parabellum
Yeah, tough shit-ski.
February 13, 2018, 02:40 PM
arabiancowboy
Under this POTUS, if our "advisers" on the ground feel threatened they have both the moral backing of HHQ and an optimized approval chain to unleash significant violence from strike aircraft and whatever other support exists. The number of enemy mass casualty events has really spiked the past year. It's not often reported.
February 13, 2018, 03:21 PM
RichardC
quote:
More than 200 contract soldiers, mostly Russians fighting on behalf of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad, died in a failed attack on a base held by U.S. and mainly Kurdish forces in the oil-rich Deir Ezzor region.
"Just a few months ago, it appeared that the Kurds of Iraq and Syria were the biggest winners in the war against the Islamic State. Bolstered by alliances with the very Western powers that had once betrayed and divided them, they dared to dream that they were on the verge of undoing what they perceived as a historic wrong, when geopolitical maneuvering denied them a state following the end of World War I...
The Iraqi government’s seizure of the oil fields around Kirkuk may represent a larger blow to the Kurds’ aspirations than the loss of the city itself. The oil is critical to their independence bid: It provides a revenue stream that gives them economic leverage with their neighbors. Losing control over those fields means having to revert to an earlier era when they were dependent on Baghdad for income from Iraq’s much larger southern fields. Baghdad’s approach since it retook Kirkuk in mid-October suggests that this is precisely the situation it intends to restore: the Kurdish region’s almost complete reliance on Baghdad."
____________________
February 13, 2018, 03:37 PM
jhe888
I am glad we have greased anyone supporting the Syrian government.
But, if they are simply hired mercenaries, then us killing them doesn't have anything to do with whether Trump is a "stooge" of the Russians. Mercenaries are freelancers.
Even if they are Russian government forces, there with the secret approval of the Russian governement, it probably doesn't have much to do with Trump's status as a stooge. Putin probably can't call him up and say; "Stooge-ski, ixnay on killing those mercenaries, they are actually our boys."
For the record, I don't think Trump is a Russian stooge. I also don't think killing those Russian soldiers, whether independent contractors or there with the approval of the Russian government (which is possible) tells us much about Trumps status as a Putin minion.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
February 13, 2018, 03:55 PM
SgtGold
quote:
Originally posted by bubbatime: That's a staggeringly uncomfortable amount of Russian "soldiers" killed. Russia usually believes in an eye for an eye, but hopefully nothing comes of it. Can you imagine 200 hundred blackwater USA contractors being killed by the Russians? It would be an outrage.
This will hit the Russian media and will empower them to rattle their saber even more.
Apples to oranges. Blackwater is a well known military contractor. I'm not too sure who was paying those mercs and what their COC is.
_____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'.
February 13, 2018, 04:03 PM
alteon180e
i doubt the russians will say or do much about this. just maybe not attack FOB's with american military in them...
this is what happens when you dont need to call "home" for every action. im sure this was a call to the closest operations center, eyes on and after seeing no civilian/collateral damage. the ground caught fire. got as high as a brigadier general if that much, before the dying started.
russian troops or mercs, they know the US military is in charge of their own arsenal out there. stupid games stupid prizes as many say.
i just dont want anymore americans out there period, f-this nightmare. hope they all come home.