SIGforum
US is monitoring Chinese spy balloon that has been floating over Montana for the past several days
February 11, 2023, 10:47 PM
PASigUS is monitoring Chinese spy balloon that has been floating over Montana for the past several days
https://twitter.com/jackposobi...HyCl15bV39pDKkr-VGJA
February 12, 2023, 05:55 AM
4MUL8RLet’s think about the shootdowns. Objects are in general unable to maneuver. This means no engine. No source of heat. This means the missile must be directed to the target. The AIM9X is in general a heat seeking missile, but in these events must be locked on to a target by the pilot with visual acuity and a datalink to the missile. Daylight would be necessary.
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Trying to simplify my life...
February 12, 2023, 06:07 AM
DoctorSoloAre you sure?
February 12, 2023, 06:37 AM
mojojojoquote:
Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
The AIM9X is in general a heat seeking missile, but in these events must be locked on to a target by the pilot with visual acuity and a datalink to the missile. Daylight would be necessary.
No, the AIm-9X uses image contrast for target acquisition, not heat. It's one of the reasons it has such an incredible all-aspect capability.
Icarus flew too close to the sun, but at least he flew. February 12, 2023, 08:14 AM
recoatliftVirtually impossible to stump this forum!
Just a terrific forum.
February 12, 2023, 08:29 AM
TMatsIn an effort to make Biden look decisive the United States is scrambling F-22s to intercept every escaped balloon that can be located.
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despite them
February 12, 2023, 09:59 AM
PASigquote:
Originally posted by TMats:
In an effort to make Biden look decisive the United States is scrambling F-22s to intercept every escaped balloon that can be located.
That’s why I’ve been saying it’s probably not a wise idea to get in a recreational hot air balloon or the Goodyear blimp right now, they are going to shoot your ass down to make Joe look good!
February 12, 2023, 10:04 AM
ScreamingCockatooLooks like they're sending them over like a string of pearls.
Biden is getting a pearl necklace from the Chinese.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
February 12, 2023, 10:14 AM
David LeeA laser would do a fine job taking down these chinese baloons.
February 12, 2023, 10:19 AM
recoatliftquote:
Originally posted by David Lee:
A laser would do a fine job taking down these chinese baloons.
Oh yeah! Boy would I like to see that before I go toes up!
February 12, 2023, 12:27 PM
parabellumOh, for fuck's sake.
FAA declares 'National Defense Airspace' over Lake MichiganThe Federal Aviation Administration has declared a "national defense airspace" over part of Lake Michigan, the organization announced Sunday.
The FAA has not clarified why it has banned civilian air traffic from the area. The FAA last established a national defense airspace over Montana this weekend in reaction to an unidentified flying object.Buncha clowns! Amateurs! Are you TRYING to look stupid?
February 12, 2023, 12:37 PM
V-Tail
הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים February 12, 2023, 12:38 PM
arabiancowboyquote:
Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
Let’s think about the shootdowns. Objects are in general unable to maneuver. This means no engine. No source of heat. This means the missile must be directed to the target. The AIM9X is in general a heat seeking missile, but in these events must be locked on to a target by the pilot with visual acuity and a datalink to the missile. Daylight would be necessary.
You don’t understand AIM9X. It’s incredible. Can even be used to shoot moving ground targets, there are many upgrades.
February 12, 2023, 12:45 PM
bigguyFebruary 12, 2023, 12:46 PM
kkinaquote:
Originally posted by bigguy:
https://youtu.be/Fpu5a0Bl8eY
This has been previously posted, but yeah: 3 down, 96 to go.
February 12, 2023, 12:51 PM
kkinaquote:
Let’s think about the shootdowns. Objects are in general unable to maneuver. This means no engine. No source of heat. This means the missile must be directed to the target. The AIM9X is in general a heat seeking missile, but in these events must be locked on to a target by the pilot with visual acuity and a datalink to the missile. Daylight would be necessary.
quote:
No, the AIm-9X uses image contrast for target acquisition, not heat. It's one of the reasons it has such an incredible all-aspect capability.
quote:
You don’t understand AIM9X. It’s incredible. Can even be used to shoot moving ground targets, there are many upgrades.
I guess I don't understand, either. The "image contrast" is infrared, therefore by definition heat-seeking. Am I thinking wrong?
A large balloon in the sun with an active electronics package does have an infrared signature, just very dim compared to a jet engine.
February 12, 2023, 12:53 PM
sdyWith the cooperation of the Federal Aviation Administration, North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) implemented a temporary flight restriction airspace in central Montana on Feb. 11, 2023, to ensure the safety of air traffic in the area during NORAD operations. The restriction has been lifted. NORAD detected a radar anomaly and sent fighter aircraft to investigate. Those aircraft did not identify any object to correlate to the radar hits. NORAD will continue to monitor the situation.
DEM Senator Tester: I am aware of the object in Montana air space and remain in close contact with senior DOD and Administration officials. I am closely monitoring the situation and am receiving regular updates. I will continue to demand answers for the American public. 11 Feb 2023 838pm
Rep Bishop:
"Chinese Spy Balloon shot down last week.
UFO shot down over Alaska yesterday.
Another UFO shot down over Canada today.
Part of Montana’s airspace now closed for “DoD activities.”
What is going on here?"
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what is important to the military ?
Military.com reported Friday that when the Navy first announced in a press release its Super Bowl flyover team line-up on January 27, there were only three women listed and none of them were pilots.
However, on Thursday, the Super Bowl announced an “all-woman” team would conduct the flyover.
Navy Cmdr. Zach Harrell, spokesman for the commander of Naval Air Forces, told Military.com that its initial announcement was not final and released “before we had settled on the final lineup.”
The final lineup, dated February 12, lists 11 female pilots and flight officers, is sorted by gender and includes the enlisted ground crew.
February 12, 2023, 01:49 PM
arabiancowboyquote:
Originally posted by kkina:
quote:
Let’s think about the shootdowns. Objects are in general unable to maneuver. This means no engine. No source of heat. This means the missile must be directed to the target. The AIM9X is in general a heat seeking missile, but in these events must be locked on to a target by the pilot with visual acuity and a datalink to the missile. Daylight would be necessary.
quote:
No, the AIm-9X uses image contrast for target acquisition, not heat. It's one of the reasons it has such an incredible all-aspect capability.
quote:
You don’t understand AIM9X. It’s incredible. Can even be used to shoot moving ground targets, there are many upgrades.
I guess I don't understand, either. The "image contrast" is infrared, therefore by definition heat-seeking. Am I thinking wrong?
A large balloon in the sun with an active electronics package does have an infrared signature, just very dim compared to a jet engine.
The post I was responding to presumed no engine equals no source of heat. IR adjudicates emissivity, that is the rate of heat dissipation compared to surroundings, which may sound like heat seeking but is distinct. I don’t want to discuss specifics of AIM9X because I’m too dumb to recall what is classified & what isn’t, and am not an expert; also I’ve never shot one (only targeted for shooters).
But broadly speaking an object, like a balloon, will absorb the sun and dissipate that heat at a rate different from the surrounding atmosphere, thereby allowing identification based upon a differing heat dissipation signature. This will be true regardless of whether it is day or night, although there is a period of thermal crossover during sunrise and sunset which has challenges. Based up my dated and limited experience with AIM9X, this broad explanation should account for a lot of advanced computing and telemetry making the missile that much more effective.
TLDR: assuming these objects are subject to our understanding of physics, AIM9X is capable of finding and killing them.
Changing subjects slightly, I am curious why the fighter guys aren’t getting in close and engaging the balloons with guns. Not being a fighter guy myself, I am making an assumption that a couple of holes in the balloon would cause it to very slowly drift to earth, as opposed to explode and sending its payload careening at the ground. Although this would create a more unpredictable and elongated landing zone, my guess is the payload would land softer, and therefore be more recoverable. Does not seem like it would be an issue over the vast area of the Yukon tundra. I’m sure I’m missing something tactically, but I don’t know what. It would be nice to have an actual brief with Q&A from our military or political leadership on what the hell is happening.
February 12, 2023, 01:55 PM
sigfreundquote:
Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
I am curious why the fighter guys aren’t getting in close and engaging the balloons with guns.
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Article from
The Wall Street Journal. The full linked article mentions the Canadian effort to shoot down an “out-of-control” weather balloon in which more than 1000 rounds were fired at it, and it took six days for it to fall to the ground. ...
LINK
► 6.0/94.0
I can tell at sight a Chassepot rifle from a javelin. February 12, 2023, 01:59 PM
arabiancowboyquote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
I am curious why the fighter guys aren’t getting in close and engaging the balloons with guns.
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Article from
The Wall Street Journal. The full linked article mentions the Canadian effort to shoot down an “out-of-control” weather balloon in which more than 1000 rounds were fired at it, and it took six days for it to fall to the ground. ...
LINK
Thank you for posting that, clearly I missed it earlier in the thread.
Still seems worth trying if we want to recover the payload since we could always destroy it later if we do not like time or location of projected landing; but I’m not an expert in these kinds of things, so I’m just guessing.