quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
Amtrak data recorder shows train was traveling at 80mph in a 30mph zone coming into curve!

https://www.seattletimes.com/s...eed-limit-of-30-mph/

From the link:

"The railway route had recently undergone a $181 million retrofit program in order to speed up passenger service that previously traveled away from the freeway and along the coast. Part of that retrofit was to include “positive train control” systems that can prevent dangerous situations such as excessive speed.

The 14.5-mile corridor is now equipped for positive train control equipment, but the train controls aren’t operating yet in that area, said Amtrak CEO Richard Anderson. An Amtrak spokesman said the equipment was still being tested.

Federal safety officials have been pushing for the implementation of those control systems for years, including in 1993 after a head-on crash between freight trains killed five crewmen in Kelso, Cowlitz County. Congress first mandated in 2008 that they be put in use by the end of 2015."

Does this "positive control equipment" override the crew? It sounds like a great idea if the electronics always work properly.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

Does this "positive control equipment" override the crew? It sounds like a great idea if the electronics always work properly.

Yes, it’s a safety overlay that will automatically slow/stop a train if a crew takes no action when approaching a speed restriction, ignores control signals, or approaches another train.

quote:

Originally posted by SigM4:

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

Does this "positive control equipment" override the crew? It sounds like a great idea if the electronics always work properly.

Yes, it’s a safety overlay that will automatically slow/stop a train if a crew takes no action when approaching a speed restriction, ignores control signals, or approaches another train.

That doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the crews. Aren't they trained to obey signals and not speed?

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

quote:

Originally posted by SigM4:

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

Does this "positive control equipment" override the crew? It sounds like a great idea if the electronics always work properly.

Yes, it’s a safety overlay that will automatically slow/stop a train if a crew takes no action when approaching a speed restriction, ignores control signals, or approaches another train.

That doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the crews. Aren't they trained to obey signals and not speed?

Apparently not.

flashguy

When I started my career with Southern Railway in 1977 as a switchman/trainman...the rules were clear...the whole train crew watched for speed and signals. When a train entered a speed restricted section of track (say 30 MPH)...from the time the locomotive entered that restriction until the conductor in the caboose radioed to the lead locomotive/engineer that the caboose passed the restriction signal...the speed was 30 MPH. You watched the speed of your consist (train) till clear...from locomotive to caboose. It was your job...no ifs/ands/buts...YOU were responsible for for your train and the public safety (to your ability)...you did not speed...

When I transferred to the mechanical/locomotive maintenance department in 1980...YOU were responsible, as far as possible, to see that your duty was carried out safely and throughly...that included checking for cracked wheels, worn brake shoes or any other item that could compromise safety or result in delays...

Until I retired from Norfolk Southern in 2011...that was how I performed my duty every day till the day I drove off the company's property...you did not pass that on to someone or SOMETHING else...YOU DID YOUR JOB!...

I find it impossible to accept the fact that a locomotive engineer could be so fucking distracted by a radio or whatever...that they could not look at a fucking speedometer on a locomotive control display to see they were over twice the speed of a speed restriction...

I felt that way when that Amtrak "engineer" (I use that term loosely) whose train was 2 1/2 times over the speed limit in Pennsylvania back on May 12 (my birthday) 2015 (and he just couldn't remember what happened...you were speeding ) and feel the same way reading the particulars on this tragedy...

People died because another human being did not do his/her duty...it pisses the shit out of this old railroader...thank God I'm retired!...

Times have apparently changed.

I am concerned about "over contributing" to this discussion, but the best actual news coverage about the train derailment will be found on The Olympian. Amtrak engineer possibly distracted before speeding train derailed, officials say is one of many articles that can be found there.

It is very difficult for me to restrain myself since people died and many were injured.

An employee-in-training? A female by any chance??

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
An employee-in-training? A female by any chance??

You are offending the sad state of Washington by even using the word "female". New state law mandates different terminology to accommodate gender dysphoria.

...

In other news, Twitter has ignored my request to remove that Antifa account which instructs of and advises the criminal activity of derailing trains, in blatant violation of previously posted new Twitter rules. While likely unrelated to the derailment, let's see what happens in the case of Old Lineage Texan vs. Left Wing Twitter.

A celebratory doobie, maybe

I edited out that idea before posting since it would be speculation, but not unlikely speculation.

quote:

Originally posted by rh:
I edited out that idea before posting since it would be speculation, but not unlikely speculation.

It happened just after 7 AM with a conductor in the space with him (based on the TV's playing of the voice tape). I don't know about rail-roading but doesn't that make it unlikely that it was dope?

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:
It happened just after 7 AM with a conductor in the space with him (based on the TV's playing of the voice tape). I don't know about rail-roading but doesn't that make it unlikely that it was dope?

There is morning cannabis, noon cannabis, afternoon cannabis, and evening cannabis in Washington. There is currently no reason to suspect that cannabis was a factor in the derailment other than my report of my experiences in Washington, which is that cannabis is quite available there.

We'll find out, but vague, widespread general incompetence by the State of Washington is the most likely cause of the derailment.

(I am still a resident of the State of Washington, owning a house and land there, hence my interest in this discussion.)

"Sound Transit spokeswoman, Rachelle Cunningham, confirmed the maximum allowable speed was 30 mph (48 kph) at the derailment point but could not say where that lower limit began."

Incompetence by not only by Mr I can't drive 79 MPH but the spokeswoman Rachelle Cunningham as well. Let me help you all. Washington DOT stated there was two 30 MPH signs posted before accident scene starting 2 miles before.

Come round the bend, you know it's the end,
The fireman screams and the engine just gleams...

This all falls on the driver controlling the speed, my guess. No excuse on the ‘inaugural’ run.

One time I was boring an engine when I ran a machine shop after hours. The guy brought his girlfriend with him and I messed up the block. It might be that all the hubbub of dignitaries and such distracted the engineer.

quote:

Originally posted by rh:

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
I've driven under that overpass many times. I leave here usually late Friday morning. A few miles south east of Olympia it starts to get slow, and by the time you get up to the JBLM area it's pretty much a crawl.

It is difficult for Washington to improve the JBLM traffic mess. A train rail is adjacent north of I-5 there while JBLM is adjacent to the south. An overpass would seem to be the obvious solution, but the Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia-suburbs area is prone to occasional earthquakes. Still, something should be done about the bottleneck, and in a rare instance, maybe the Federal government can help.

This is what commuters and commercial traffic are now sitting in while trying to bypass the derailment:



ETA: "Traffic" has long been a problem in that area of Washington, even predating the U.S. Civil War. Trigger warning this PDF LINK documenting the construction of Military Road to transverse from Fort Steilacoom to/from Fort Bellingham was created by

UNITED DAUGHTERS
OF THE CONFEDERACY
Robert E. Lee Chapter 885
Seattle, WA USA

Oh good gracious. I have relatives who live very roughly by the 'm' in 'derailment'. Have visited there a number of times. To get from their house to Tacoma (through Gig Harbor) takes over an hour in *good* conditions, and the traffic on those roads has been getting steadily, increasingly worse for years.

I've also taken the 'back way out' through Shelton, when it was the better way to get to something we wanted to see. Those roads truly sucked - narrow, winding, etc- when the only traffic you were likely to see was the occasional logging truck that the greenies hadn't fully eradicated (yet).

This is stupendously bad.

You might say this is what you get when you try to be California 2.0 (enormous population growth, development, assumed amenities, etc), without California's enormous inherited infrastructure and sustained wealth. Even California can't afford to be California anymore, no half-assed evergreen hippies can swing it.

quote:

Originally posted by rh:

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
I've driven under that overpass many times. I leave here usually late Friday morning. A few miles south east of Olympia it starts to get slow, and by the time you get up to the JBLM area it's pretty much a crawl.

It is difficult for Washington to improve the JBLM traffic mess. A train rail is adjacent north of I-5 there while JBLM is adjacent to the south. An overpass would seem to be the obvious solution, but the Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia-suburbs area is prone to occasional earthquakes. Still, something should be done about the bottleneck, and in a rare instance, maybe the Federal government can help.

This is what commuters and commercial traffic are now sitting in while trying to bypass the derailment:



ETA: "Traffic" has long been a problem in that area of Washington, even predating the U.S. Civil War. Trigger warning this PDF LINK documenting the construction of Military Road to transverse from Fort Steilacoom to/from Fort Bellingham was created by

UNITED DAUGHTERS
OF THE CONFEDERACY
Robert E. Lee Chapter 885
Seattle, WA USA

"Ah, why can't they just move the base??? I mean Seattle was here first" - Treehugging Seattlite

quote:

Originally posted by domcintosh:
Washington needs to do something in order to relieve the burgeoning traffic nightmare that I-5, the Seattle area, and everything between Tacoma and Olympia. The roads aren't built to provide the capacity for the demand in the area. Seattle's traffic is progressing worse off, and the commuters aren't helping matters. As they aim to supplant Silicon Valley, they're running into the same system problems.

Thus the push for more mass transit systems, if implemented poorly and impractically. They're trying to plan for the demand tomorrow, looking at the problems of today, and stay elected.

The whole corridor from Seattle (or just north of) down to Olympia has been in a 'boom town' phase for how long? Decades, now.

And the infrastructure improvements have been, what? To add carpool lanes (which reduce the actual carrying capacity of a road) and stupid bus ramps?

The area has such a crappy road net (makes me remember NJ admiringly in comparison) that things were falling apart in good conditions. There was no question of having redundancy to absorb disruptions.

Well, now you've got a disruption. Oh boy, do you ever. And IIRC, they just spent slightly shy of a billion dollars putting this updated rail link together, apparently just to make it easier for the homeless to migrate.