I was expected to work to pay a substantial portion of my tuition. I took a factory job in Chicago where I loaded 55 pound boxes of Karo corn syrup for eight hours. I made much more than my mother whowas a newspaper editor. In order to buy a used VW I took on a second job in the shipping and receiving department of a newspaper. I went from one job to the next. That sort of thing seems foreign to kids these days. Most of my friends had similar jobs.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
I went to a rather prestigious and expensive Univerity, which allowed me to get into a very competitive field at the graduate level. I worked and paid one third of my undergraduate career, my parents paid a third and I got a loan which I paid off when I reached the age of 40. The government paid for my graduate education but got it all back when I was forced to work for the goverment for a few years. I just checked. The University I attended is now 86 grand per year.
It was imorpant to have quality faculty. Even the football team was forced to take difficult classes.

Notre Dame?

The schools have too much government money and are bloated. I am thoroughly convinced that 50% of university administrators could be fired today and classes would continue on just fine.

I may not remember this story exactly but, one of our former members JALLEN told a story from I think 1950s. He played trumpet in a band at a New Year's Eve party, made about $300 and that paid tuition for a semester at University of Texas.

Yep. It was academically challenging to say the least. Athletics were in abundance. We had more athletic equipment for the students than any other University except Ohio State. All male in those days. We commiserated with the Navy Midshipmen whom we have played every year since the 1940s,who had a similar environment.

I have been a professor since 2000.

Most, including universities, have forgotten the original purpose of the university, the core curriculum. We tried to codify what it meant to be 'Da Vinci's' Renaissance Man.
A true citizen and cultural man should have XYZ. No one has ever really agreed on what that is, but the point is that by studying Art, Religion, Athletics, Math, Social Sciences, Philosophy et al. you become this Renaissance Man. (FWIW this is referenced as the Canon) THEN you study for a trade (if needed) Ben Franklin is my favorite candidate for this, printer, inventor, politician etc.

The trick is this was expensive, and so communities only sent their best, the rest went to work in the salt mines. (que larger discussion on the evils of the industrial revolution and child labor etc.)

Fifty years ago it was treated like a gateway to get out of Blue Collar multigenerational entrapment (however you see it) but then it all changed when most of those jobs were shut down and shipped out. Now we proudly declare that 99% of all kids must go to college. But society has NEVER supported that. At best it is 75%. Many would love to be gainfully employed work hard, marry, have kids etc.
But when we tell them to 'go to college' for no good reason, force debt on them, we wonder why it fails.
Today, in an effort to appease these masses that do not really understand the difference in the trade school, and university, we have countless ridiculous degrees that do NOT lead to employment.

I believe a reset is coming. What University and trade school, and High School, etc. will look like. No one knows. It is not crippling debt that finally kills it though.
It is generative AI that is killing it.

quote:

Originally posted by ibanda:
The schools have too much government money and are bloated. I am thoroughly convinced that 50% of university administrators could be fired today and classes would continue on just fine.

I may not remember this story exactly but, one of our former members JALLEN told a story from I think 1950s. He played trumpet in a band at a New Year's Eve party, made about $300 and that paid tuition for a semester at University of Texas.

Dang I miss JALLEN. He once called me down after a negative post I made, It hit me hard. It was a real attitude check. Not many make me feel that way.

The reason there is so much bloat in the administrator ranks is that there are few avenues for promotion. Work well at your job, nobody cares. You wont make more. i.e. staffer processes 75 application when only 40 are required. So the only path to reward this employee is middle management. and then everyone is just protecting their empire.

Professors get three promotions in their career (assistant, associate, and full). I have delayed my promotion to full because it will be the last one. And that is depressing in a way. I could move into administration, but nope, I like being in the classroom. I am having fun researching and developing AI policy and procedures. So in a way it is fun again.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe it was the 1960s when JAllen attended UT. In those days UT had the number one or two team in the country{football}.
I have taught part time at several Universities, and I could never understand why administrators were paid more. The President of many state Universities pull down high six figures. Many hospital administrators make substanially more than the physicians.

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I have taught part time at several Universities, and I could never understand why administrators were paid more. The President of many state Universities pull down high six figures. Many hospital administrators make substantially more than the physicians.

Yeah... and the football coach even more than the administrators.

Missouri Head Football Coach Eli Drinkwitz's salary averages $10.75 million annually under a new six-year extension (through 2031), totaling $64.5 million in base compensation, with his 2026 salary set at $10.25 million, making him the highest paid public employee in the state.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good point. However the top ten college football teams pull in millions each year if they have a winning team. The amount they receive from TV contracts, deals with Nike etc is in the millions. On the other hand paying Brian Kelly to coach LSU to the tune of 53 million was crazy.

MO's coaches salary is nothing compared to the NIL money they have to spend to get the players in order to compete.

UM's gross football revenue is $58 million per year, that money funds everything, but the big expense is $31 million in NIL money.

NIL is the Bain of NCAA existence, but it's not his $10.75 salary and that is not paid from any state funds or taxpayer money, it's all funded by media rights, ticket sales, concessions, but not out of UM's general fund.

Most coaches at high paying universities are not paid from the schools general fund, most all are paid through the athletics association and funded by big donors and tv media money. None of that money would have ever been available to pay teachers, professors, books etc since it's earned on the basis of the football/basketball programs success.

NIL, now that's paid the same way, in essence with NIL college sports is now clearly a pre-pro paid league.

We could argue if sports should exist in college, but it's a losing argument, take it away, all the money surrounding it leaves, it doesn't convert into the general fund. No sports, no TV money to share.

Sports have been around since the Romans had games, football started the late 1800's in organized sports Rutgers vs Princeton played the first game in 1869. People are not going to give up their love for their alma mater and athletics does represent pride for many states.

quote:

Most coaches at high paying universities are not paid from the schools general fund, most all are paid through the athletics association and funded by big donors and tv media money. None of that money would have ever been available to pay teachers, professors, books etc since it's earned on the basis of the football/basketball programs success.

I understand that argument... that football pays for itself, and even subsidizes other sports.

Still, I think it's wrong. I'm of the belief that the focus of a school should be education. Sports were once 'extra-curricular activities', which were for fun and exercise.

From the last page:

quote:

I agree with you that capitalism needs to sort this out. Why not remove the government from the equation entirely?

quote:

Sports have been around since the Romans had games, football started the late 1800's in organized sports Rutgers vs Princeton played the first game in 1869. People are not going to give up their love for their alma mater and athletics does represent pride for many states.

I'm a football fan. I love the competition.
I'm not a fan of what big money has done to the game, or the university.

I'm not sure how you put the genie back in the bottle, but: The US University system is broken.

We've been talking about closing the Department of Education since Ronald Reagan pledged to do so. That still has not been done. I think getting all federal money out of education and letting the States do what they want is the first step in the right direction.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Sports have been around since the Romans had games, football started the late 1800's in organized sports Rutgers vs Princeton played the first game in 1869. People are not going to give up their love for their alma mater and athletics does represent pride for many states.

I'm a football fan. I love the competition.
I'm not a fan of what big money has done to the game, or the university.

I'm not sure how you put the genie back in the bottle, but: The US University system is broken.

We've been talking about closing the Department of Education since Ronald Reagan pledged to do so. That still has not been done. I think getting all federal money out of education and letting the States do what they want is the first step in the right direction.

Don't disagree with you at all, there is mega money in big sports, same here on Football, and preferably college basketball, until the new coach at my Alma Mater proves he can get them to play competitive in the SEC!

What big sports money has changed the game, NIL has made it worse.

The academic problem at universities is a different kind of problem and not related to how much the Coaches are paid, the federal funding and constant implanting of far left indoctrination professors is IMO a bigger problem than any $ paid a football coach.....

Sports, tuition, asmin salaries, room and board, student loans. If we can’t define the problem, we have no hope of fixing it.

quote:

The academic problem at universities is a different kind of problem and not related to how much the Coaches are paid, the federal funding and constant implanting of far left indoctrination professors is IMO a bigger problem than any $ paid a football coach.....

Yes, I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Sports, tuition, admin salaries, room and board, student loans. If we can’t define the problem, we have no hope of fixing it.

The problem is government.
Once you take government out of the equation, the experimentation will begin.
Some schools will succeed, some will fail.
Dollars and students will flow to the successful. The unsuccessful will change or close.

There are thousands of universities and colleges in the USA. Nobody is forcing anyone to pick one school over another. That seems fairly free market to me.

The school I went to from 1995-1997; The Culinary Institute Of America was very nice and a beautiful campus but was NOTHING like the amenities they have today.

We had crappy dorm workout rooms or had to drive down the road to Marist College to use their gym and pool etc. Just as I was graduating in summer of 1997 they were blasting the area to build a student recreation center which over the years turned into this HUGE elaborate student commons and gym and pool and event center and dining center.

I looked up the tuition and it's literally 4 TIMES now what I paid, I used GI Bill, grants and took one loan out for $15,000 that I paid off early. Now these kids are walking away with 6 figure loan debt. To go work in a hotel or restaurant making shit money. It's INSANE.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
There are thousands of universities and colleges in the USA. Nobody is forcing anyone to pick one school over another. That seems fairly free market to me.

The two areas of our economy with the highest levels of funding participation by government are education and health care.
They are also the two areas where inflation greatly exceeds the rest of the economy.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
The school I went to from 1995-1997; The Culinary Institute Of America was very nice and a beautiful campus but was NOTHING like the amenities they have today.

We had crappy dorm workout rooms or had to drive down the road to Marist College to use their gym and pool etc. Just as I was graduating in summer of 1997 they were blasting the area to build a student recreation center which over the years turned into this HUGE elaborate student commons and gym and pool and event center and dining center.

I looked up the tuition and it's literally 4 TIMES now what I paid, I used GI Bill, grants and took one loan out for $15,000 that I paid off early. Now these kids are walking away with 6 figure loan debt. To go work in a hotel or restaurant making shit money. It's INSANE.

Yes that is a major problem and as chellim1 pointed out, massive funding to students from government.

Mike Rowe has been championing blue collar jobs and trade schools for quite a while, we need people that turn wrenches as much as type in code.

It's a big ship, with lots of money, takes a while to turn those things around.