SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Federal judge in TX says U.S. can’t ban gun sales to people indicted on felony charges
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| would not care to elaborate  |
If there is a bond...!!! | |||
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| Ignored facts still exist |
Unless you programmed a long time ago, then use <> . | |||
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Peripheral Visionary |
I learned C++ many moons ago... I would say if they are indicted on a violent felony then no gun purchases as a condition of their bond is reasonable, but if they are indicted on a nonviolent felony but not yet convicted their rights should remain intact.   | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine  |
That is different than that an indictment making you a person prohibited from possessing a gun. Bond conditions include all sorts of things you couldn't impose on someone outside of the criminal system. Don't want to go to jail - wear the monitor, don't drink, don't hang around with felons, etc. . . . The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| would not care to elaborate |
It may be applied for different legal reasons, but the from the standpoint of the accused the restriction is the same. | |||
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| drop and give me 20 pushups |
Being "Indicted" does not not mean guility .... Only means that there is possible probable cause to bring someone to trial to face the possible charges. ... And if a overly aggressive prosecuter is so inclined he could indicte a "ham Sandwich' but does that make the "sammich" guility... Maybe a condition for release on bond might be no gun possession but once free from the bond restriction and released of any charges then possession should be allowed. ..................... drill sgt. | |||
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| Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
Not a lawyer so just asking the question. How far do you take the concept of enumerated rights in the Constitution? If you are charged with any crime, you are technically just facing an accusation until found guilty by the court. You commit a robbery or a murder, they take away your freedom, not just gun rights, and lock you up. If this is just a constitutional rights issue and absolute, how is this any different? This guy was charged with lying, making a false statement on the form, not possession by a convicted felon. Also an accusation until adjudicated in a court. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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Member |
Really, It seems the old adage of innocent until proven guilty is not so. But it's not just this... I know a guy who was arrested for DUI in Florida and got the case dismissed and then found out he still had to take some course to keep his auto insurance because he was arrested... the logic goes way beyond me. I see where the guy technically broke the law by lying on the 4473 but the question should not even be on there... just like most of the questions... hell most of those questions can't even be asked if you are applying for a job. My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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| Freethinker |
What you pointed out are the reasons why I predict that this judge's ruling will ultimately be overturned. If we can be locked up and then subjected to bond conditions that are significant restraints on our freedoms on the bases of legal rulings that involve less findings of guilt than an indictment, why not on the basis of an indictment? I believe that if the ruling were upheld by the Supreme Court, for example, it would turn our criminal justice system on its head, and I don't see that happening. We may not like the principles involved, but I would bet a nickel that they won't be changed. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine |
What is your point? The difference in the reasoning is the important thing. The difference in process between me locking you in my basement because I am crazy and the state locking you up after a conviction is why one is permissible. But it is all the same result to you. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine |
I don't know a lot about this topic - and especially the law around bail and bonds - but I do see significant differences in granting bond on certain conditions and in denying you the right to possess a firearm because of an indictment generally.This message has been edited. Last edited by: jhe888, The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| would not care to elaborate |
My comment is clear. You're argumentative over nothing, congrats. | |||
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| Freethinker |
I wouldn't mind seeing some changes, especially what effect a ruling like this might have on the outrageous (IMO, of course) "red flag" law that Colorado has on the books. I will be watching with much interest. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
I would agree, a bond is something granted with stipulations by the court, to accept the terms of a bond and then be out on one, the person is contracting for this, and as such, that contract can have stipulations, no driving, stay away from schools, no alcohol, no guns, etc.. An indictment is the government saying they are charging you with something, doesn't mean you are at that point proven guilty. Until the court decision is done, either by jury or agreement of the one indicted and the government, you are not convicted of anything, and you may never be.... | |||
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| 10mm is The Boom of Doom  |
A few random thoughts, and not necessarily well thought out... 1. There seems to me to be a difference between bond requirements which are individualized for each defendant, and a blanket prohibition against all defendants. 2. My limited understanding is that indictments can hang around for quite some time with no simple way to clear your name. Does an indictment necessarily start the clock on the right to a speedy trial? 3. If it is found constitutional to restrict purchases for any and all persons with a felony indictment, would it follow that is also constitutional to confiscate all the guns of everyone indicted as well? God Bless and Protect the Once and Future President, Donald John Trump. | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine |
Your comment was far from clear. What is the point you are trying to make with the observation? The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine |
Yes, but "speedy" is relative. Your point is valid. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
To an interested bystander like me, I'll be watching to see the arguments made on both sides and the courts determination. As someone not in that business, this seems like a question that would have been asked and answered long ago. Hard to believe it hasn't happened before but maybe that shows how little attention is paid to those forms by the legal system unless something pops up in the computer check. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine |
It is more probable that recent firearms decisions by the Supremes have encouraged people to challenge laws that they didn't think they could overturn previously. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Thank you Very little |
The left is looking for any and all ways they can attack things they want changed or eliminated. Legally they can't get rid of guns because of 2A and a now more conservative court. So you will see less and less laws and more pushing of their idealism through corporations who are sympathetic to their idealism... Read DeSantis presser on this, it's clear what the game plan is, find non governmental, non legislative methods to inflict their plans on people that circumvent the rules of the constitution be it guns, societal idealism, Gay, Non Binary agendas.. | |||
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