quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
They already have worse penalties. They usually lose their job and most likely their careers

Bahahaha!

Oh.

You were serious.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

One of the requirements of getting an ATP is that an applicant be “of good moral character”.

How is this enforced? I know an absolute sleaze bag who is working toward ATP, and I would love to see a monkey wrench thrown into his plans.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Same. Btw, they are civilians.

This is exactly what I was going to say. They should be charged the exact same. Even though I am in Law Enforcement, I can’t stand the term police vs civilian. A cop is a civilian. They are just a cop while on duty. To me civilian comes into play for people in the military. When enlisted, you are in a different world and transition back to civilian life.

I do internal affairs investigations on officers in county jails and state prisons. In my investigations, the officers who commit a criminal offense get charged with a crime if they committed one the same as anyone else and there are several other crimes that apply to only them due to their position. Law Enforcement truly should be held to a higher standard, but criminally the same as everyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
They already have worse penalties. They usually lose their job and most likely their careers

Preach it, brother. Oh wait, that would be the same with non-LEOs who commit crimes.

quote:

Originally posted by onegeek:


You were serious.

It’s not uncommon for cops to get fired for sleeping around. And they lose their certifications. I don’t know of many other jobs that will fire you and pull your cert for infidelity.

A poorly trained cop will use excessive or improper force. You can tell an agency is pretty well trained when it isn’t use of force that get people fired, it’s not being able to keep it in their pants, and lying/covering it up that gets them.

For bad crimes? Shouldn’t be any different. Unless they used the badge to do it. Then sure I’m okay with that. With a mandatory stipulation that they can never again work in any aspect of law enforcement, or hold any publicly elected position.

quote:

Originally posted by 400m:
With a mandatory stipulation that they can never again work in any aspect of law enforcement, or hold any publicly elected position.

A felony conviction achieves both of those already.

(Well, besides the presidency.)

That’s good. I think that should also apply to certain misdemeanor convictions also if it was used in conjunction with abuse of the the badge. Once you know the person is willing to break the trust, they should not be allowed to hold that position of trust again. But I don’t want to get too far out of the scope of the OP’s question. So yes, in certain situations I think LE should have the potential of stiffer penalties.

Even that type of misdemeanor generally will result in them having their LE certification pulled and barred from getting another.

quote:

Originally posted by 400m:
Once you know the person is willing to break the trust, they should not be allowed to hold that position of trust again.

Really? Cool.

So, you’re a OTR truck driver. You are driving cross country. Your first mandated rest stop, you meet a woman who is not your wife. You go to her house and have consensual sex. She makes no complaint of wrong doing. But another truck driver is jealous, and reports your actions to the trucking company. You have committed no crime. Should you be charged with a “special” charge that applies only to truck drivers, your 401k frozen, you are fired and banned from getting a CDL for life? Higher standard and whatnot?

quote:

It’s not uncommon for cops to get fired for sleeping around

Really? Cool.

So you admit that it's common for police officers to knowingly violate policy and/or engage in unethical behavior.

Truck drivers are not working under any such policy or ethics rules unless they are engaged in very specific types of trucking that may certainly enforce that type of action.

If you don't like the policies or ethical behavior, don't sign up for a job that requires adherence to both.

I wonder what the statistical difference is between police officers who feel they are treated too harshly by the law as it is, and the general public. Bet that gap is huge.

I have a tendency to agree with the points jljones makes. If a cop shoots an unarmed person that he shouldn't have, should said cop get stiffer penalty than myself for doing the same thing? If a cop beats the shit out of a suspect should said cop get a stiffer penalty that me for beating the shit out of somebody I suspect of doing bad things. Penalizing a cop more harshly seems like a hate crime. A crime is a crime. I have seen instances where a PD may cover for a bad cop but I have noticed that a DA might cover for Joe Schmuck ghetto rat.

^^^^^^
Yep.

And no one wants policing to change more than me.

jljones, try reading my entire post again, not just the sentence you quoted. That might give you some perspective. The previous sentence included the words “if it was used in conjunction with the abuse of the badge”! Two sentences later I use the abbreviation LE. I never mentioned truck drivers, mail carriers, or shop keepers. The word person in your quote clearly refers to law enforcement.
34,000+ posts, you’re capable of comprehension. What is going on?

For crimes committed while having the authority of law enforcement, I say they should have harsher penalties.

There is already a higher standard to be able to charge them because they have the benefit of qualified immunity. Once that qualified immunity threshold is overcome, then the punishment should be harsher to serve as a deterrent.

Per your request, I reread your post in its entirety. And just like the first time, I do not agree with it.

So, as truck drivers were mentioned earlier, I used them as an example. Of a double standard that already exists, and can and will lead to revocation of a cert.

In keeping with the truck driver theme, .04 is per se DUI when operating a commercial vehicle. It means at .04 BAC, the burden shifts from the government to prove he was impaired, to the driver to prove he wasn’t. We don’t penalize CDL holders at the .04 level when they are not in that a commercial vehicle. Nor (at least in this state) do we suspend their CDL longer that a normal license. We are already doing that with cops in my example.

The moral and ethical thing I understand. But, until such a time that we figure out how to alter human nature, cops will remain a cross section of the society they serve.

More to your OP, I disagree with it on face value. Let’s just say for the sake of argument the crime is felony theft on duty. They go into a store and steal something in uniform of felony value. There should not be additional penalties for the theft than what is outlined by the state legislature for that particular offense.

With that being said, a jury should 100 PERCENT MAX THE FUCKER OUT within the guidelines of what’s allowed due to committing the crime under color of law. They should rightfully take in to account that it was a cop in uniform and they used their position to do it. They should be on the higher end of the sentencing guideline than if you committed the crime. Absolutely so.

Maybe my example isn’t the best, but I’m trying to pick crimes that don’t evoke a lot of emotion. You bring up anything UoF related and people lose their ability to reason. I’m not a fan out two tiered Justice.

What is U of F?
And I agree theft in uniform shouldn’t rise above any other civilian penalty.

Oops this time I didn’t read: You said felony theft. Still agree he shouldn’t be in greater jeopardy just because he was in uniform. He’d have to do more than that to justify it in my mind.

Use of force. Shootings, assaults etc

And while I despise false complaints and malicious prosecution of cops for political means, I don’t think “special” penalties should apply to those that do it.

One last thing, sorry folks I know this isn’t quite on topic, if you wouldn’t mind telling me what state you work in. I’ve had a CDL for almost 30 years and I was always under the impression that my allowable BAC had to be under 0.04% even in my personal vehicle. Although I’ve only been told that by other truck drivers not attorneys of police officers.