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| Shit don't mean shit |
Based on my experience, I would never try a shot to the skull to kill an animal. Several years ago I went antelope hunting on the plains here in CO. Antelope hunting is very tough as you typically can't get closer than 300 yards, at least the females. I tried a few 300+ yard shots and consistently missed. I was able to hit one. Unfortunately, it his the front leg and only wounded the animal. Every time I tried to get close the damn thing would jump up and run away. I had 2 rifle shots left and missed at close range. My buddy had a .357 Magnum in his truck. He got it and I finally got close enough to get a shot off. I shot that animal in the head twice, and it only stunned it. It got up both times and ran for a little while then finally collapsed and died. At that point I decided antelope hunting was not for me. Point being, its very hard to get a bullet through an animals skull. I know rifles have quite a bit more muzzle energy than a handgun, but those .357 shots bounced off the skull. Never again. | |||
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The target isn't the "skull." It's the brain. Much smaller. ____________________ | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
In my view, anyone who uses 30-06, 270 etc against lions, tigers, etc are asking for trouble. 458, 460, 600, etc would be my choice. The lion had just killed someone, screw the tranks, get the heavy arty and put it down!! Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
I have taken a couple deer with OO. One clean head shot, did the job, about half the pellets remained inside the skull One was a shot aimed right behind the shoulder. Several of the pellets did not go clear thru. And the range at the time was less than 20 yards. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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| Shit don't mean shit |
And probably the best protected portion of the skull. | |||
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Member |
Even .22 could do the job? Many years ago, I took a shotgun class from a retired LEO. I won't recount the whole story but he was called to the scene of an enraged bull (I believe Brahma) that was destroying a neighborhood, trapping a person in a garage and goring others. Some yokels enraged it and then shot it in the top of the skull with a .22 to defend themselves and it bounced off. It put the bull in fight mode. The bull made it from the countryside into a neighborhood. My instructor was the shift sergeant and carried slugs against city policy. Yes. He caught hell for it - and some time off. He put multiple slugs into the bull and through the lungs and the bull kept coming - even collapsing and getting back up to continue. Finally, a local butcher who lived on the street and worked at a local packing plant came out his front door, walked up to the bull at the right angle, fired one shot from a .22 behind the bull's ear and it was instantly over. (It's what the guy did for a living.) The instructor used the story to convey the truth that it's not the caliber but the shot placement that counts - maybe a better bit of training and preparation would be to learn good placement for various confined critters. Also, it seems to me that buck will mess up a paw something terrible. Why not take a mechanical shot to slow mobility? I was always taught, mechanical, hydraulic, and electrical as three placement avenues for stopping a threat. Did they only use 2? . . . just ideas. _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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| Distinguished Pistol Shot |
I have a .458 Win Mag that I would feel comfortable with going after a lion. | |||
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| Staring back from the abyss  |
I routinely shoot whitetails in the forehead with a .22LR and they drop right where they were standing. Granted, they are typically inside 50 yards, but still. In my experience, head and/or neck shots are the only way to go. I hate having to track critters. ________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton. | |||
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There are no high velocity cartridges for African medium-heavy and heavy game. Lion catridges are medium velocity medium bores. If you used a medium bullet in a high velocity 300 win mag for example you would be asking for trouble. For lion there is no need for the big bore African cartridges unless the hunter is going for a mixed bag that includes buffalo. So for Lion you're looking at 375 H&H and the like. You can use a 338 but I woundn't want to stop a charge with it. But none of the African cartridges for for anything but small deer are high velocity anything. For the small deer 30-06 or smaller is fine, unless you're in an area containing dangerous game. I've never been to africa. Lover of the US Constitution Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster | |||
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Where do you place those head shots for quick kill? | |||
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Caribou gorn |
They may not seem like it, but a big male lion weighs almost as much as a cow elk, but in a more compact, muscular package. 30-06 will kill one, sure, but probably not quickly. African PH's insist on (more than) enough gun because they're the ones that have to go get them after the shot. I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. | |||
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.357 H&H is the minimum permitted for dangerous game in many African countries, at least that is what my guide told me. The big difference between game in other parts of the world vs. Africa is the vastly accelerated fight or flight response. It is just on a whole other level over there, especially with the critters with pointy teeth. ---------- “Nobody can ever take your integrity away from you. Only you can give up your integrity.” H. Norman Schwarzkopf | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
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semi-reformed sailor |
When I was in the CG we had 375H&H magnums issued to the Polar Sea and Polar Star to protect scientists while on the ice, for polar bears. Qual was five rounds in one minute. When I was a cop I was the guy who got called to put animals down...I went to the vet and learned where to shoot pretty much any kind of animal to end it’s suffering quickly. But if I was the guy who got dispatched to the zoo for a lion and all I had was my AR...it would be daunting for sure. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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I was in the city the day that happened. What a great idea those guys had, lets go to the zoo and antagonize the tigers. Darwin kept working on the victums buddies, all are either dead, paralyzed or in prison. The Cincinnati zoo has a specially trained unit,they have and train with 12 gauge, 30-06, 375 H&H and a 458 Winchester Mag. Repordedly they used the 458 on the gorilla that was using the toddler managed to climb into the cage. | |||
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| Member |
That was a complete shit-show, not only in one of the officer's pants but, the idiots who started it, the responding officers, the zoo, the lawyers...clown shoes. Back to OP: That read like a What NOT to Do manual. Good grief, not a single action that was done was clean or, incident free. Surprised they didn't mention something like the responding fire truck experienced a flat tire on the way. It's unfortunate that, that lion basically suffered because somebody or, a series of people couldn't get the job done. If you're a zoo/conservation center/animal retirement home, you need to carry the appropriate weapons to deal with your most deadly animals; there's got to be a paragraph in their insurance coverage stating the need to have all contingencies covered. Unbelievable that there was not a second dart gun. If you're the LE agency in that jurisdiction, you also need to have the right firearms available to deal with said animals, you WILL BE the responding agency (see insurance) to an attack or, escape, what's your plan chief? | |||
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In Alaska, police commonly use 1 1/4 oz slugs and it works well. This is for brown bears. -c1steve | |||
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Can't say I blame the police for their choice of weapons, I suspect it was the only long gun they had available - most of us would approve of shotguns with 00-Buckshot to deal with the majority of sub-urban two-legged threats, and any native wild animal in North Carolina as well. This was a private zoo, not the public one in Asheboro, NC (I'd expect that Sheriff's Dept to have a plan to deal with those animals - which include a large number of elephants and hippos. It's one of the best zoos in the country.) These guys got the biggest guns they were issued and used them to the best of their ability. Why they waited for a second blow gun and fire using a hose, I can't answer, but I doubt they went in having selected those weapons with any other reasonable choices. To me, the onus is entirely on the owner to have had adequate firepower and the skills to apply it rapidly in this situation. | |||
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Member |
Some agencies are going to “reduced recoil” rounds for slugs. That may be fine for human targets but for lions, I want something that bruises my shoulder! | |||
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| Member |
I worked a call with an escaped tiger. I put the AR away and pulled out the shotgun. I can tell you that most cops think an AR-15 will penetrate everything! The reality is that their hand gun rounds will be more of a menace. By the way, a bengal tiger has claws the size of a steak knife! | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge what round for taking out a lion ? apparently shotgun not the best in NC lion attack...
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