a fair amount of WTH in this story

sometimes animals just don't want to die

-------------------------------------------------


Report: Caswell deputies needed eight shots to put down lion after fatal attack


BURLINGTON, N.C. — Caswell County deputies had to fire eight shots to put down a lion that had attacked and killed an intern at an animal preserve over the weekend, according to a police report.

Alex Black, 22, was working with a Conservators Center staff member to clean an enclosure Sunday when a lion escaped its pen, killing her.

According to an incident report filed by the Caswell County Sheriff's Office, three deputies went to the center on East Hughes Mill Road after the attack to help staffers get the lion away from Black so she could receive medical attention.

"Staff members stated the victim had not moved from the spot she was in since the lion left her there," Sgt. Michael Griggs wrote in the report. "The victim did not appear to be moving, and it was unclear to her status."

Conservators Center officials wanted to tranquilize the lion, known as Matthai, so that paramedics could get inside the enclosure to treat Black, and Griggs said he told officials that deputies would have to use lethal force if the lion started attacking Black again.

When a tranquilizer dart broke off inside a gun and jammed it, center co-founder Douglas Evans had to drive home to retrieve a blow gun, Griggs wrote in the report.

Evans put three darts in the lion, but they didn't seem to slow the animal down, Griggs wrote. The lion jumped up and down from a structure in the enclosure and once lay down but never appeared sleepy, he wrote.

"He was amped up. He had been moving around the kennel, or the enclosure, several times." Griggs said Monday in a television interview.

Conservators Center

Firefighters sprayed the lion with a hose to move it into the open and away from Black, and after clearing the surrounding area, Griggs shot the animal near its right front shoulder with his shotgun, according to the report.

"The lion did not go down and then ran back into the wooden structure with the small door," he wrote.

Griggs fired a second shot, and another deputy fired a third shot, both in the right front shoulder area, but the lion still didn't go down. Griggs said he fired a fourth shot into the lion's right side.

"At that time, the lion moved over to the far left side of the structure and did not go down to the ground," he wrote. "The lion stayed on his feet, and there was not a clear shot to take at this point."

When the lion began running toward a fence where deputies were stationed, Griggs said he put two more shots into the lion's right side. The lion finally lay down under a platform, and a third deputy fired a seventh shot into the lion's breast below its neck, according to the report.

"At this time, the lion's head went down on the ground, and a few minutes later, the lion stopped breathing," he wrote.

Griggs said Evans told him that the lion needed to be shot in the heart to guarantee it was dead, and Evans instructed him where to aim for the eighth and final shot.

Staffers then went into the enclosure and confirmed the lion was dead. Paramedics also went in and confirmed that Black was dead.

https://www.wral.com/report-ca...tal-attack/18099597/

-----------------------------------

I’d want nothing less than a .308, and a semi-auto at that. If I was responding with my M4 and couldn’t choose otherwise, I’d keep putting rounds on target until the damn thing stopped moving, spare mag at the ready. Likely, it was adrenaline jacked enough to where the trank wasn’t working as planned, and nothing short of a solid CNS hit was going to do anything quick.

Damn. That was a tough read.

There is a reason people who go on safari use high velocity, heaver caliber rifles. Sure, a 30-06, .270, or 12 gauge slug will kill the beast, but for lights out right now performance you need things like .458 Win mag and the like.

The deputies probably did not have slugs in their shotguns.

With a shotgun, the ammo makes a big difference.
I would be really surprised if they were using high-base full-power 00-buckshot from a 12-ga and couldn't put that cat down at close range. Really surprised.

.308? Shit I’m not going up against a pissed off lion with anything less than a .45-70 with some serious rounds in it. I’m curious as to what kind of rounds they were using in their shot guns. I bet they were low recoil slugs (assuming they were using slugs, I didn’t catch that if not)

quote:

With a shotgun, the ammo makes a big difference.
I would be really surprised if they were using high-base full-power 00-buckshot from a 12-ga and couldn't put that cat down at close range. Really surprised.

I think all zoos / animal farms / petting zoos and the like with dangerous animals should have heavy caliber rifles and trained personnel for just these types of occasions. Having to wait for an LE response and putting the onus on them for proper ammo and gun selection seems like a recipe for this type of disaster.

quote:

Originally posted by mod29:
With a shotgun, the ammo makes a big difference.
I would be really surprised if they were using high-base full-power 00-buckshot from a 12-ga and couldn't put that cat down at close range. Really surprised.

I would want no part of trying to kill a lion with buckshot. Slugs would be ok if in a pinch.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
.308? Shit I’m not going up against a pissed off lion with anything less than a .45-70 with some serious rounds in it. I’m curious as to what kind of rounds they were using in their shot guns. I bet they were low recoil slugs (assuming they were using slugs, I didn’t catch that if not)

I’m speaking from the perspective of responders. If I could show up with a 45-70, .416, .458, etc, that would be preferable. A .308 semi-auto would be the minimum I’d feel somewhat comfortable with. I patrol with an M4, so that’s what I’d bring like it or not. I’d be way out of my comfort zone but I’d have to go regardless.

quote:

Originally posted by mod29:
With a shotgun, the ammo makes a big difference.
I would be really surprised if they were using high-base full-power 00-buckshot from a 12-ga and couldn't put that cat down at close range. Really surprised.

Doesn't surprise me. A 00 pellet is only about 60 grains. That's not going to get very deep penetration into the vital organs.

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:

quote:

With a shotgun, the ammo makes a big difference.
I would be really surprised if they were using high-base full-power 00-buckshot from a 12-ga and couldn't put that cat down at close range. Really surprised.

I think all zoos / animal farms / petting zoos and the like with dangerous animals should have heavy caliber rifles and trained personnel for just these types of occasions. Having to wait for an LE response and putting the onus on them for proper ammo and gun selection seems like a recipe for this type of disaster.

.375 H&H at least. I remember reading ages ago of an elephant in captivity that went rogue, I want to say in Hawaii. Responding officers of that day had only Winchester 94s in .30-30 available from the photo. All in all, a very sad tragedy.

8 shots after who knows how long the person laid there before hand, someone drove home to get a blow gun, how long did that take!?

Sprayed it with water, why didn’t they just let it go to sleep after eating her?

Seems like a lot of time waiting, I suppose she must have been very obviously dead or you wouldn’t spend so much time fooling around.

8 shots are something that takes seconds at most.

What I find crazy is that they waited for the dude to go home and get a back up blow gun before going in. If it were me responding I’d tell that zoo keeper sorry about your luck, but I’m shooting that lion now to hopefully save that girl..

quote:

Originally posted by rat2306:

.375 H&H at least. I remember reading ages ago of an elephant in captivity that went rogue, I want to say in Hawaii. Responding officers of that day had only Winchester 94s in .30-30 available from the photo. All in all, a very sad tragedy.

I lived in Hawaii when that happened in 1994 - Tyke the elephant rampaged the downtown area in / around the Blaisdell Arena. Very intense.

Video shows the HPD officers with (i think) 30-30s and Benelli shotguns. Their issued handgun at the time was a 9mm Smith and Wesson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxLi9C7ygyk

--------------------------------------

Slugs or better to open

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:

quote:

With a shotgun, the ammo makes a big difference.
I would be really surprised if they were using high-base full-power 00-buckshot from a 12-ga and couldn't put that cat down at close range. Really surprised.

I think all zoos / animal farms / petting zoos and the like with dangerous animals should have heavy caliber rifles and trained personnel for just these types of occasions. Having to wait for an LE response and putting the onus on them for proper ammo and gun selection seems like a recipe for this type of disaster.

The zoo here trains regularly at our range with 458 Magnum rifles and 12ga slugs. I would think that 12ga slugs particularly a Brenneke type would be sufficient for lions though certainly not optimal.

Lions aren't that thick skinned or heavily built, but it goes without saying that they are dangerous.

30-06 is probably adequate, but I'd like a .33 bore (like .338 Win Mag), or even a .375 H&H for them. The 9.3x62 is a classic medium bore round.

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:
Damn. That was a tough read.

Yep. Poor lion, it's horrible it had to die that way. They should have properly tranquilized it, if it malfunctioned then they should have a rifle available and someone who can put rounds on target accurately.

Why the hell were they allowing an intern with presumably little experience around deadly animals in that enclosure? The zoo bears some responsibility here for that and not having properly maintained and functioning tranqs. I hope her family gets some compensation, no amount of money will bring back that child to their parents, but it will hopefully insure that the zoo is equipped and trained to deal with a similar situation when it occurs next.

Nothing I see said what type of shotgun ammunition was used.
Far too many people believe that buckshot is some sort of hammer of Thor, but as stated above, those little pellets won’t necessarily penetrate very far. If, however, the lion had taken eight full velocity slugs, then I would have been very surprised—assuming, of course, they hit anything vital.