IMO, two of the biggest contributers to the decline and demise of major civilizations throughout history have been the decline of the general moral fiber paired the loss of nationalism through “multiculturalism”. Thanks to liberals, we are steadily heading down that very road.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
IMO, two of the biggest contributers to the decline and demise of major civilizations throughout history have been the decline of the general moral fiber paired the loss of nationalism through “multiculturalism”. Thanks to liberals, we are steadily heading down that very road.

I agree. To me "multiculturalism" really means put all other cultural value systems ahead of traditional American values (aka diversity, equality, social justice). And the decline of moral fiber is evident with our nations increased dishonesty, selfishiness, materialism.

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Originally posted by MikeinNC:

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Originally posted by mbinky:
It's not a "Civil War". It is the Second War For Independence. And it will be fought within the next 50 years.

I'm in, and soon, I ain't getting any younger.

Same here! Knees make it hard to run, either direction, but eyes are pretty good after the surgeries so I can still shoot, and with scopes can shoot long ranges, too.

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
IMO, two of the biggest contributers to the decline and demise of major civilizations throughout history have been the decline of the general moral fiber paired the loss of nationalism through “multiculturalism”. Thanks to liberals, we are steadily heading down that very road.

I agree. To me "multiculturalism" really means put all other cultural value systems ahead of traditional American values (aka diversity, equality, social justice). And the decline of moral fiber is evident with our nations increased dishonesty, selfishiness, materialism.

A certain amount of materialism and selfishness is not only ok, but beneficial. When it gets beyond a certain level, then it can be ruinous.

The Greatest Generation grew up in the poverty of the Depression. Some didn’t feel it as much as many did, of course, but when they took that experience through the crucible of war, a lot of them came out determined to make sure their children didn’t have to endure anything similar. Maybe they overdid it a skosh.

A certain level of lying has always been a part of human existence, but the art has evolved some. Now lying is old fashioned. An untruth about oneself is “identifying with” whatever status is claimed, gay, trans, black, college grad, single, veteran, where you can obtain some real or imagined benefit and aren’t going to have to prove it.

Lying has become the national past time, not baseball. Maybe you will have some bad vibes, but nobody goes to hell over it anymore.

Part of it is the relative anonymity of life today. At least in my semi rural youth, everybody knew everybody pretty much and if you were discovered to be a liar, either full or part time, your social standing suffered, often grievously.

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Originally posted by Clem Eastwood:
While I agree a there are many liberals in education and they tend to push their agenda, in the school I work teachers pushing their ideologies is very frowned upon. The problem I see is lack of parenting and values being taught to the kids at home. We are given kids who have not been taught the basics of being a functional person, parents expecting us to to their job for them, and then blame the teachers when their kids who have not been taught any kind of work ethic or expectation of personal responsibility fail because they refuse to do the work. It wears on many good teachers and they decide it is not worth the fight and either concede to rewarding a standard that isnt even close to mediocrity, or just leave education all together. It starts at the top. We have actually been told by a superintendent to listen to the students' struggles/stories rather than hold them accountable for their behavior that blatantly does not meet the standard expectations that administration/school board put in their own student code of conduct. At the point the admin/school board/parents refuse to hold the children to a standard, what can the good teachers do? The answer is not much. While I appreciate your opinion, I have to disagree with the notion that the entire problem is the teachers. That is a relatively small percentage of the problem...

It may be an oversimplification, but I blame at least part of that problem (lack of parenting, leave everything to the government) on the government and the Federal Reserve. When I was a kid, there were a lot of stay at home moms. Since then, through the silent taxation of inflation (and the overt taxation of anything and everything), it has become so expensive to live that single income families are a rarity and latchkey kids are more and more common. On top of that, with the government sticking its finger into everything (and more and more people choosing to have the government do things for them instead of taking responsibility for themselves) it is almost natural for some folks to leave raising their kids to the government. Of course, there is something to the old saying that we only get the government we deserve...
I don’t know how we break the cycle of increasing responsibility for the government and decreasing responsibility for the people, but we certainly need to. I hope we figure out a way to do it short of war. Teach your children well.

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Originally posted by JALLEN:

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
IMO, two of the biggest contributers to the decline and demise of major civilizations throughout history have been the decline of the general moral fiber paired the loss of nationalism through “multiculturalism”. Thanks to liberals, we are steadily heading down that very road.

I agree. To me "multiculturalism" really means put all other cultural value systems ahead of traditional American values (aka diversity, equality, social justice). And the decline of moral fiber is evident with our nations increased dishonesty, selfishiness, materialism.

A certain amount of materialism and selfishness is not only ok, but beneficial. When it gets beyond a certain level, then it can be ruinous.

The Greatest Generation grew up in the poverty of the Depression. Some didn’t feel it as much as many did, of course, but when they took that experience through the crucible of war, a lot of them came out determined to make sure their children didn’t have to endure anything similar. Maybe they overdid it a skosh.

A certain level of lying has always been a part of human existence, but the art has evolved some. Now lying is old fashioned. An untruth about oneself is “identifying with” whatever status is claimed, gay, trans, black, college grad, single, veteran, where you can obtain some real or imagined benefit and aren’t going to have to prove it.

Lying has become the national past time, not baseball. Maybe you will have some bad vibes, but nobody goes to hell over it anymore.

Part of it is the relative anonymity of life today. At least in my semi rural youth, everybody knew everybody pretty much and if you were discovered to be a liar, either full or part time, your social standing suffered, often grievously.

There is nothing wrong with retaining ones culture; it is essential to remembering who you are and where your people came from.

It is another thing entirely when you put that cultural retention ahead of your assimilation into the country that takes you in as one of her own, providing a safe place to live and prosper. Retain your culture, but be an American first, or go back to where you came from to retain your culture there.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:

There is nothing wrong with retaining ones culture; it is essential to remembering who you are and where your people came from.

It is another thing entirely when you put that cultural retention ahead of your assimilation into the country that takes you in as one of her own, providing a safe place to live and prosper. Retain your culture, but be an American first, or go back to where you came from to retain your culture there.

Very eloquently stated, I'm in complete agreement.

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
IMO, two of the biggest contributers to the decline and demise of major civilizations throughout history have been the decline of the general moral fiber paired the loss of nationalism through “multiculturalism”. Thanks to liberals, we are steadily heading down that very road.

I agree. To me "multiculturalism" really means put all other cultural value systems ahead of traditional American values (aka diversity, equality, social justice). And the decline of moral fiber is evident with our nations increased dishonesty, selfishiness, materialism.

I guess it depends on how one defines multiculturalism. I have had the great good fortune to be exposed to a few different cultures and have learned a bit from all of them. If multiculturalism means looking at other cultures through a lens of values, taking those things that make sense and leaving those that don’t, all while trying to understand where “their different approach came from,” then I think multiculturalism is a very good thing. If multiculturalism means accepting any heinous behavior without a lens of values and calling it “okay,” I think multiculturalism isn’t worth a tinker’s damn.

Acting as it there are no values and that is “okay” because multiculturalism is horse effluent.

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Originally posted by slosig:

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Originally posted by Clem Eastwood:
While I agree a there are many liberals in education and they tend to push their agenda, in the school I work teachers pushing their ideologies is very frowned upon. The problem I see is lack of parenting and values being taught to the kids at home. We are given kids who have not been taught the basics of being a functional person, parents expecting us to to their job for them, and then blame the teachers when their kids who have not been taught any kind of work ethic or expectation of personal responsibility fail because they refuse to do the work. It wears on many good teachers and they decide it is not worth the fight and either concede to rewarding a standard that isnt even close to mediocrity, or just leave education all together. It starts at the top. We have actually been told by a superintendent to listen to the students' struggles/stories rather than hold them accountable for their behavior that blatantly does not meet the standard expectations that administration/school board put in their own student code of conduct. At the point the admin/school board/parents refuse to hold the children to a standard, what can the good teachers do? The answer is not much. While I appreciate your opinion, I have to disagree with the notion that the entire problem is the teachers. That is a relatively small percentage of the problem...

It may be an oversimplification, but I blame at least part of that problem (lack of parenting, leave everything to the government) on the government and the Federal Reserve. When I was a kid, there were a lot of stay at home moms. Since then, through the silent taxation of inflation (and the overt taxation of anything and everything), it has become so expensive to live that single income families are a rarity and latchkey kids are more and more common. On top of that, with the government sticking its finger into everything (and more and more people choosing to have the government do things for them instead of taking responsibility for themselves) it is almost natural for some folks to leave raising their kids to the government. Of course, there is something to the old saying that we only get the government we deserve...
I don’t know how we break the cycle of increasing responsibility for the government and decreasing responsibility for the people, but we certainly need to. I hope we figure out a way to do it short of war. Teach your children well.

On top of that, what I have noticed around here is that leadership at the top, be it the school board, or Principles and Vice Principles, are worried about one thing, and one thing only. Keeping the dollars turned on. It isn't about education, or even ideology. It is about money, and the pursuit of getting more money.

I personally believe that there is no evil plan to indoctrinate your kids to make them lefty pinkos, I think that the focus is about money so much that the indoctrination bullshit goes on as a by product, because the teachers are free to do what they wish as long as the money stays turned on.

A district near me that I have the most experience with (I graduated HS there), in a years time only teaches the subjects that are on the state standardized testing. (You know, the state standardized testing that shows what kind of job they are doing, and is directly tied in to grants) So if Math and History are the main subjects on the test, they only teach math and history and electives that year. Then, they practice test it starting about January a couple of times per month. Students are fed answers, and it is almost like they have them memorize the answers in an order, singing little dittys to help them remember. The ones that still don't get it are "assisted" in taking the actual test. A teacher or teachers aid will read the test to them, and then coach them into the right answer. If they refuse to give the right answer, the right answer is marked anyway. YAY!!!!! We scored a 96.5 district wide. Before long, the way they are stacking the results, 100 percent will no longer be acceptable, they'll have to expand it to 150 percent out of 100.

They no longer disciple and expel students. They no longer allow students to quit. They have "A Schools" that allow them to do quite frankly whatever the fuck they want as long as no one gets hurt, or leaves the room. Once the "A School" is full, the student is warned and just put into a classroom with everyone else to be disruptive. And guess what? Less than hilarity ensues.

Get caught with dope? Don't worry, we have a program for that too. We aren't going to prosecute for you selling week, or Xanax at school. We'll just send you to "A school" if you get caught. The days that the school system are going to have K9s search the area? You get told about it before hand. You just take your dope with you to where ever you are going to stage. The cops aren't allowed there for "safety reasons". Only the truly stupid who leave their dope in their lockers get caught.

So, yeah, its a joke. A big one. It's about money, and the rest of the stuff is just a byproduct.

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Originally posted by jljones:
So, yeah, its a joke. A big one. It's about money, and the rest of the stuff is just a byproduct.

Not to put words in your mouth, and please correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like that poop stain Runcie in Florida is not at all an exception. It also sounds like if the local law enforcement won’t play ball like that even bigger scumbag Scott Israel then the district will just box law enforcement out to the greatest extent possible to make their numbers look good. What a mess.

One of the many problems the public school system has that the districts get paid, by state and federal departments of education, for butts in the seats. I suppose this was done to encourage effective truancy programs, but the incentive leads to these hairbrained antics described above. They do what they get paid for. They avoid anything that leads to diminution of those revenues.

^^^^Right on both accounts, gents.

6) Lack Of A Shared Culture

The legal and illegal immigration from shithole countries has something to do with this one. Many come here with no intention of wanting to assimilate.

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Originally posted by slosig:
When I was a kid, there were a lot of stay at home moms. Since then, through the silent taxation of inflation (and the overt taxation of anything and everything), it has become so expensive to live that single income families are a rarity and latchkey kids are more and more common.

I think it’s much simpler than that. Single income families used to exist because only one person in any household worked. Once you doubled the number of people working (I.e. increased supply) wages gradually adjusted to about half of what they were before, effectively leaving families exactly as they were before, but with both spouses now working.

Should we go back to those days? Of course not, but this probably the main contributor.

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Should we go back to those days? Of course not,

I wish we could... I think it would be great for families and for children if more mothers stayed home, at least while they are pre-school age.

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Originally posted by slosig:

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Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
IMO, two of the biggest contributers to the decline and demise of major civilizations throughout history have been the decline of the general moral fiber paired the loss of nationalism through “multiculturalism”. Thanks to liberals, we are steadily heading down that very road.

I agree. To me "multiculturalism" really means put all other cultural value systems ahead of traditional American values (aka diversity, equality, social justice). And the decline of moral fiber is evident with our nations increased dishonesty, selfishiness, materialism.

I guess it depends on how one defines multiculturalism. I have had the great good fortune to be exposed to a few different cultures and have learned a bit from all of them. If multiculturalism means looking at other cultures through a lens of values, taking those things that make sense and leaving those that don’t, all while trying to understand where “their different approach came from,” then I think multiculturalism is a very good thing. If multiculturalism means accepting any heinous behavior without a lens of values and calling it “okay,” I think multiculturalism isn’t worth a tinker’s damn.

Acting as it there are no values and that is “okay” because multiculturalism is horse effluent.

I agree with you. I was defining "multiculturalism" by California standards (which are not unique to California).

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Originally posted by btanchors:

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Originally posted by gearhounds:....Retain your culture, but be an American first, or go back to where you came from to retain your culture there.

Very eloquently stated, I'm in complete agreement.

The growing norm these days is to demand the benefits/opportunities provided by traditional American culture (the reason they moved to this nation), while demanding that America assimilate the cultural norms that degrade the immigrants homelands.

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The growing norm these days is to demand the benefits/opportunities provided by traditional American culture (the reason they moved to this nation), while demanding that America assimilate the cultural norms that degrade the immigrants homelands.

Right... they simply don't understand that freedom is what made the US a great country. All of this welfare "free shit" is slowly destroying our work ethic and turning us into just another 3rd world country.

Borders. Language. Culture.