I was reading a news article just now, and the image that accompanied it caught my eye.



It shows a group of high-ranking US Army officers (and one Navy officer) attending a meeting in Germany.

Setting aside the Navy guy in the totally different Navy camo pattern (second from the left in the main group), and just looking at all the other Army officers in OCP ("Multicam") camo, I notice at least four different shades of the camo pattern. On the main general himself, center in the photo, his cap, blouse, and trousers all appear to my eyes to be different hues. The same result is repeated on several of the others in the frame, and when comparing between one person to another. Some piece are lighter, some pieces are darker, some pieces are more green, some pieces are more yellow, and some pieces are more brown.

Is this something specific to the more complex OCP camo? Or maybe bad quality control between clothing batches? Or was this also an issue going back to UCP/DCU/BDU or MARPAT camo uniforms?

Basically, is it common for US military camo uniforms to be so noticeably non-uniform? I don't recall noticing it to this extent before, but then I was never really looking for it.

I get that clothing gets worn down in the field and from extended use, which can affect the colors and patterns on it (usually by lightening and washing them out). But it seems like a bunch of high-ranking officers, who almost certainly spend their entire time sitting in offices and meeting rooms, would have more uniform, minimal wear to their clothing, so that doesn't seem to be the explanation here.

Often it depends on how old the uniforms are and how many times they have been washed.

Milley is wearing a jacket; the colonel next to him is not. Jackets don't get washed as often and are not used year-round.

They may be field jackets that don't get worn as much and thusly don't get washed as much.

The caps look woodland. Probably the last time Milley was in the field was when that was standard.

I'll be interested in hearing answers to the question, but just wanted to mention that a few hours ago I was reading an article about Ukrainian soldiers being trained in Oklahoma on the Patriot missile battery, and that same exact photo was inserted into the article, explaining that an American officer was monitoring their training.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
They may be field jackets that don't get worn as much and thusly don't get washed as much.

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:
Milley is wearing a jacket; the colonel next to him is not. Jackets don't get washed as often and are not used year-round.

That thought occurred to me, along with the jackets being a different material that could potentially display the pattern differently (polyester vs. cotton, etc.)

But that's not the only explanation, because you can then look at the jacketless colonel to the right, and compare his non-jacket blouse to his own cap, or to the trousers or cap of Milley in the center or Halbert to the far left. Or even to the jacketless uniform of the 101st guy in the background on the right.

That colonel's uniform is noticeably darker and browner than everyone else's uniform pieces, even excluding the two jackets.

I can’t say anything about current Army uniform standards, but at one time at least there was a “Uniform Board” that established requirements pertaining to colors, shades, and designs for uniform items.

I became aware of it about 1987 when I had to defend a subordinate against a nit-picking headquarters company commander who accused him of shortening the sleeves of a then-relatively new green uniform shirt because it had a standup collar rather than a flat collar that most short sleeved shirts had, and that was unauthorized*. The NCO denied doing that, and I had to find a major who told me that when the new shirts were introduced, they originally had the standup collars and the flat style was introduced later. He confirmed that the original style was authorized for wear and I had to send a memo up the chain explaining all that before the idiot HC commander finally shut up (if she was never convinced).

As stated, though, it’s common for the colors of items that get washed to fade and, not all colors fade equally. I have a woodland camo rain parka with a different fabric than most other items, and as I recall I never had reason to wash it (CID agents didn’t go to the field much). Its colors are still dark and distinct.

A Special Forces SFC I knew thought that the ideal camouflage uniform was the original “woodland” pattern that had been washed enough for the colors to have become much lighter and less distinct. Sort of like the MultiCam and its knockoffs today (but not exactly).

*It was only much later in life when reflecting on the terms relating to “authorized” that it dawned on me it wasn’t a casual use of the word. Being an Army brat, I had grown up around its use, and never given it much thought. Authorized means permitted, and if it wasn’t expressly permitted, it was prohibited. That same HC CO gave another officer grief because he wore gloves without wearing an overcoat or windbreaker. The regulation said gloves could be worn with coats, but that was the only apparel mentioned along with gloves: so, no coat, no gloves.

As Gustofer and I have said, a lot of it has to do with how often the uniform is worn, how many times it has been washed and I will also add in sun bleaching. There may be minor lot-to-lot differences in uniform coloring that may be more noticeable over time.

Milley probably doesn't wear his field uniforms nearly as much as the others do.

You've got your answers. Jacket is a different material, slightly, and not washed the same amount or in the same way. Tops (blouse) and bottoms (trousers), should match.

There's more to consider, my unit when I retired, required special detergents for our uniforms. In the BDU and ABU days I had most of my uniforms custom tailored to remove pockets I didn't use or remove the extra materials so they looked better when worn and held the items I wanted them to hold. I always removed my buttons from BDU's and went to silent velcro, and sewed the seams down. Uniforms for more formal occasions that didn't require dress uniform, got starched heavily with brighteners and no pockets, hard creases (BDU's). Field uniforms were carefully washed in special detergents to not introduce brightening or wear out the coatings, and lots of them I had treated with permethrin. It was always important in my service to wash tops and bottoms as sets, I can't imagine that has changed.

It could also be different lots or batches of fabric and dyes. I don't know how much variation from lot to lot is acceptable. There are several slightly different overall colors there - some browner, some greener, and some yellower overall.

The jacket hasn’t been washed as much as the underlying uniform..that’s all.

When I was in we had an all blue ODU (operational dress uniform- all blue on a camo BDU type uniform).
When You got a new set, you wrote “A” on the tag with a sharpie, for the top and bottom, so that they got washed and worn together, otherwise they would fade at different rates and you could easily point out the guys who didn’t.

Then next set was labeled “B” etc…

Most people do keep tops/bottoms together, so they remain matching, as they fade. Most folks care; some don't; current leadership largely doesn't, unless it's for a ceremony of sorts. I'd imagine these gentleman all care, but this seems to be a field environment, and the uniform standards are likely relaxed. I think a lot of it is a result of the fundamental change that occurred with the transition to ACUs. When they changed how they considered the uniform at large, the standards dropped across the board. When you're in the surplus store, the BDUs are all in pretty damn good shape, with very squared-away patches, flaps, and creases, the ACU and OCP stuff isn't. The adoption of ACU was the beginning of the end, in perhaps, coincidentally, more ways than one. Another thing to consider is the "scorpion" vs OCP vs Multicam thing; all variations of the Multicam theme, and all used to varying degrees, by different contract and aftermarket manufacturers, on different materials.

I would swear that the uniform the Colonel is wearing (to Gen. Miley's right) is the multi-cam pattern.

I am not saying it is, but I just went in the other room and pulled out a brand new pair and it looks a lot a like.

The multi-cams and new OCP are so much a like it is hard to tell. This is especially true when they are new.

That is another massive waste of money the Army hoisted onto the taxpayers.

You might be on to something, mrapteam666. That would explain his noticeably darker hue, if he's wearing the slightly different but related OEF camo pattern ("true" Multicam®), which was used as a stopgap until OCP could be rolled out.

And that very well could also explain why the Colonel's rank patch and name tapes stand out so prominently against the rest of his uniform, if those patches are the lighter OCP pattern and he stuck them on a darker OEF uniform...



But I was under the impression OEF camo was no longer authorized as of October 2019. So you'd think that a Colonel who knew he was meeting with the highest ranking officer in the entire Army wouldn't show up wearing a uniform that has been out of regulation for the past 3+ years.

quote:

Originally posted by mrapteam666:
That is another massive waste of money the Army hoisted onto the taxpayers.

I dunno... As costly as it may have been to do a one-time replacement of camo uniforms with nearly identical camo uniforms, they likely saved the taxpayers quite a bit of money in the long run by doing their end-run around Crye's Multicam copyright and avoiding years/decades of hefty royalty payments.

I walked into a surplus store here this last summer, and there were probably a few hundred surplus OCP (and probably also Multicam) uniforms on two racks on either side of one long aisle. As I walked down it, I noted that there was an even greater variety of shades than pictured, some faded so badly that they’d be impossible to find a match to in the same size, if it was even generally possible at all.

That said, there is a difference between the shades of color in the Multicam pattern of stuff a friend and I bought in 2007 for hunting, and the stuff they put out now. The stuff we bought then was a lot greener overall and less brown and tan. I still have a boonie for reference. I’m sure Crye would argue with us, but we’re pretty sure that standard Multicam itself has either changed or had some noticeable variance over it’s lifetime.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
That said, there is a difference between the shades of color in the Multicam pattern of stuff a friend and I bought in 2007 for hunting, and the stuff they put out now. The stuff we bought then was a lot greener overall and less brown and tan. I still have a boonie for reference. I’m sure Crye would argue with us, but we’re pretty sure that standard Multicam itself has either changed or had some noticeable variance over it’s lifetime.

Something the size of a hat can’t really tell you - Multicam has big color variation over the pattern, there will be areas (up to maybe a few square feet in size) that are pretty brown, areas that are pretty green, etc.

There are also different versions of MC, they make MC Arid (very brown), MC Tropic (very green), and a snow camo and a black camo.

I’d agree, but my friend bought a whole set with hat, tops, and a pair of pants and they all matched.

Look at the collars and you can spot the jackets are part of the ECWCS, Extreme Cold Weather Clothing System. As mentioned, it's a complete different material then the Army Combat Uniform (ACU). Now looking at the COL it's possible he is wearing FRACUs or similar uniform. It's also possible but not probable that Miley is wearing light weight pants.

Miley's hat is definitely OCP or multicam, Woodland was a lot darker. Also, having seen the man in person on several occasions and served under him, I highly doubt he would wear a woodland hat.

As mentioned, number of washes, detergent, age etc. can cause variations in uniform color. Plus we use multiple vendors so you can have pants from one vendor and jackets from another in the same clothing and sales and they don't always match perfectly. As mentioned Hats and cold weather jackets are often not washed as often your normal tops and bottoms.

Camo fun fact: If you are considering outfitting yourself in any type of camo to facilitate a life of crime, the same technology that is used in facial recognition can scan your camo pattern and this can later be used to match you to the crime. Evidently the varied colors and the patterns can be as unique as a fingerprint.

On the bright side, that Navy Lt. CMDR is looking mighty uniform in color

And also appears to be sporting a SEAL trident, like this one: