Hi all, recently contemplating aging, etc., maybe even buying a new pistol, and the thought process ventured into the recoil of the caliber for said (proposed) purchase. And you guys are easily the most knowledgeable group, so I pose this:

I have read in this forum people stating they are reducing their caliber(s) due to uncomfortableness of shooting “X” caliber (not Excalibur), so I was wondering if there is a way to actually measure recoil. I know there are variables involved, gun weight, barrel length, bullet weight, etc., but with all variables standardized is there someway to calculate recoil?

For instance, JJones has the “revolver” thread going in the Pistol section and in there several people mention an SP101 in 327 Fed (yeah I know, one more round), but what is the comparative recoil of shooting one round of 327 Fed magnum in that gun to shooting a 357 magnum in the SP101? Are there numbers?

Of course since we have newton, we have the ability to measure recoil. for example here's a recoil table as an example...
.223 Rem. (45 at 3500) 8.5 2.6 4.5
.223 Rem. (55 at 3200) 8.0 3.2 5.1
.223 Rem. (62 at 3025) 7.0 3.9 6.0
.223 Rem. (70 at 2900) 8.0 3.6 5.4
With weight in column 1, energy as the second column and velocity in col 3. I don't normally follow pistol recoil since I don't care, but I'm sure its available for whatever combo you want. (no time at the moment to search for you).

Well I am not the expert jones is but I have some advice. There are many variables involved as you know, one being the weight of the gun, two being how the round is loaded{Underwood for example is fully loaded},your grip on the gun, and your expectations. My Ruger Redhawk in 44 mag and a 7 and one half inch barrel is pleasant to shoot. On the other hand my Ruger LCR in 38 special is painful.

The best remedy is to shoot as many guns as you can and decide for yourself.

Muzzle energy = recoil energy. Measuring further is a waste of time as it is completely subjective.
I'm 5'10" 275lb, my wife is 4'10" 12--er, ouch 115lb. We have a slightly different opinion about recoil.
Some guns mitigate the amount of felt recoil. A gun that feels good in your hand will probably feel better shooting vs a gun that is uncomfortable in the same caliber.

Uh. no. what it weighs is a material factor.

There is a formula for free recoil. But that doesn't capture feel, which affected by stock shape, recoil pad material, etc. There isn't a simple answer.

Guns and glasses,
They need your eyes to get
the right measurements.

And they need your hands and wrists to measure the kick.
To measure your individual tolerance

A. Very comfortable
B. Tolerable
C. Harsh
D. Painful

I know three fellas that won't pick up a .45-70 lever action,
But
I can shoot 30 rounds w/o concern.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

This is one I found years ago that is pretty complete.

Some guy was trying to determine which brake works the best for an AR...he strapped the rifle into a shooting sled and laid a tape measure on the table top. Then he proceeded to swap muzzle devises and record how far they free recoils...it actually showed some good devises....the less the gun free recoiled rearward the better the brake...

You could always try the same.

Some other guys have already mentioned chuck hawks and the measure for recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
There is a formula for free recoil. But that doesn't capture feel, which affected by stock shape, recoil pad material, etc. There isn't a simple answer.

After hrcjon (thanks) posted the formula, I knew mechanically it could be computed, but you quite succinctly pointed out variables I do not think can be quantified, hence, the formulas are moot?

Fun thread, but so many fallacies already stated that most of what has been said is worthless. For instance, I have an old/new Browning 1886. Yeah, its a lever gun. But its got pretty wood, so I bought it. It more correctly should be classed as a crew served weapon. Recoils more like a 22 but its clearly because of the weight. I'd take it hunting but only to sit beside a tree and hope bambi would come to me. I ain't lugging that beast any farther than necessary. Still looking where to attach the trailer hitch and the wheels.

The advice to try all the different ones out isn't really practical. It means you've got to buy all the candidates first, then the ones you find unsuitable you've got to sell. Probably at a loss. For a while there I had a basement full of bad choices....

Ah recoil…. And the problems of discomfort (hand pain and/or blast) accuracy, especially 2nd shot, including staying/returning to target. These and other issues are not limited to aging and strength, but also to new and inexperienced shooters.

Craigcpa, I assume you are referring to handguns principally, thus my comments might carry some relevant information. While I am an NRA certified instructor, my world revolves around CCW using small lightweight pistols like the SigP365 (17oz) and the S&W 340 (11oz). In these guns, recoil is a significant factor to consider.

For my level 2 concealed carry instruction class at my private club range, I sell a 50 round sample ammo pack consisting of 6 different bullet weights in either 9mm or 38 special cartridges. Emphasis is on light weight bullets from 65 grains to 124 grains from major manufacturers like Hornady & Speer to less well known manufacturers. These lightweight bullets remarkably reduce felt recoil to a pleasant level with the surprising benefit of being easier to pocket carry than the heavier traditional bullets. These lightweight bullets have proven popular.

You might want to consider lightweight bullets unless you really just need an excuse to buy another gun .

And yes I can discuss different aspects of lightweight bullets such as depth penetration and deflection if required.

Good luck in your search…..

if you want to quantify it, you can get a pressure transducer such as a Kistler or an equivalent and set it up between the pad and your shoulder

of course every rifle is going to be different, and probably each ammo load different (but within SAMMI spec of course)

this will give you some quantitative data but probably not the qualitative data you're looking for

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
There is a formula for free recoil. But that doesn't capture feel, which affected by stock shape, recoil pad material, etc. There isn't a simple answer.

100% agree. I've changed out stocks on hunting rifles and had noticeable differences in how they feel under recoil. You can go to a lighter stock and have less perceived recoil. It's crazy, just no way to measure it IMO.

quote:

Muzzle energy = recoil energy.

This statement is absolutely false. Recoil energy is a small fraction of the energy carried by the bullet. If the recoil energy were the same as the energy carried by the bullet; recoil would not be sometimes painful, it would sometimes cause death.

Here is an interesting study on rifle recoil.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S2214914716301635

If I recall there are many phases of recoil.
- Primer ignition
- Main charge ignition
- Discharge of propellant (after round exits crown)
- Counter recoil

The first three are impulses that occur with varying forces during round discharge. The last is the human response to the physical recoil.

It's actually quite complicated to calculate. Many factors contribute to "felt recoil", including several related to firearm design. There are several moments at play.

We can certainly objectively measure energy, but we cannot objectively measure felt recoil. You can walk up a flight of stairs to get the roof, but you cannot jump from the ground to the roof. You can walk down that flight of stairs to the ground, or you can jump off.

My analogies are not perfect, maybe not even good. But there’s more to the feel than the actual measurable energy. Energy over time would get you closer, but different people perceive things differently. A shotgun recoil is a push, a high power rifle much more snappy. Which has more energy? Which feels like more recoil to you?

Maybe something like this? Looks like its more about muzzle flip, but.....

https://youtu.be/47ob02Nbn7A

He did it for handguns also...

https://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_recoil_table.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Tuckerrnr1:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

This is one I found years ago that is pretty complete.

According to this link,
.327 recoil@ 5.6 lbs
and .357 recoil @ 7.2 lbs

https://www.tactical-life.com/.../ruger-lcr-revolver/