Originally posted by C L Wilkins: I cannot agree with the thread title more. For what it's worth, the Carter administration orchestrated the downfall of the Shah. It was this ill conceived act that started all of the woes in Middle East. The epicenter as you will. The world is still paying for it.
CW
The troubles in the middle east started just after Adam and Eve but the end of WW1 was the recent start when the British and French carved it up to their needs (Sykes-Picot).This message has been edited. Last edited by: 220-9er, November 25, 2018 04:01 PM
Originally posted by C L Wilkins: I cannot agree with the thread title more. For what it's worth, the Carter administration orchestrated the downfall of the Shah. It was this ill conceived act that started all of the woes in Middle East. The epicenter as you will. The world is still paying for it.
CW
The troubles in the middle east started just after Adam and Eve but the end of WW1 was the recent start when the British and French carved it up to their needs.
Cain and Able. Read the memos from Sumner Welles to FDR regarding the Palestine "problem" and you will realize how near sighted it is to blame Carter for the Middle East. You may also look into the BP Oil connection and the coup that put the Shah into power. One could argue (once you get past WW1) that the "Eisenhower Doctrine" is one of the more recent reasons for the Middle East issues today.
Carter sucked as a president, but he was far from the "cause" of any of our current problems. Heck, blaming him for today's issues gives him way more credit then deserved, he would have had to actually do something.
November 25, 2018, 02:25 PM
12131
quote:
Originally posted by Hound Dog: I despise carter as much as anybody, but that's kind of a stretch.
We can't know the future; neither can we accurately predict "What Might Have Been" in scenarios such this. There are just too many moving parts. . .
Yes, carter WAS week (as was zippy the wonder turtle), but we will likely never know how either presidency ultimately shape(d) our future.
Agree with every point.
Q
November 25, 2018, 06:20 PM
Blume9mm
Weak? How many of you would have gone into a nuclear reactor that was melting down and manually pulled the rods out when you could have sent someone else in?
My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors"
November 25, 2018, 06:42 PM
220-9er
quote:
Originally posted by Blume9mm: Weak? How many of you would have gone into a nuclear reactor that was melting down and manually pulled the rods out when you could have sent someone else in?
I think some stuff got lost in the translation. Nobody put their hands on a nuclear fuel rod although what he did took a certain type of courage and skill. Being the President of the US is a completely different skill set and he, unfortunately, didn’t have it. I suspect he is a nice guy and honest as politicians go but that’s not a job requirement.
Originally posted by smlsig: Does anyone know how old Khomeini is? He has to be up there...
His passing will be interesting.
He died in 1989. It was in all the papers.
November 26, 2018, 09:25 AM
rsbolo
Carter also screwed up nuclear power for the US forevermore.
____________________________ Yes, Para does appreciate humor.
November 26, 2018, 09:47 AM
Crom
To me, Carter seems like the qiuntessential example of how private virtue and public policy are different things and must always be recognized as different things. Carter was a very nice, charitable, "good" guy, and might even have been considered "courageous" in the fuel rod incident.
But the job of President is to do what is best for America and protect America in a harsh, unfair, violent, immoral world. That requires some harshness to defend against the barbarity that would attempt to destroy our civilization. Carter was simply to weak an "nice" in his failed policies. Weakness is not seen has a kindness to be reciprocated by tyrants and fanatics. It only emboldens them.
"Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me."
November 26, 2018, 09:48 AM
smlsig
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
quote:
Originally posted by smlsig: Does anyone know how old Khomeini is? He has to be up there...
His passing will be interesting.
He would be 116 but he died 29 years ago.
Thank you. I didn't know that. So who is in charge now of the religious arm of the Islamic Republic?
------------------ Eddie
Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
November 26, 2018, 10:18 AM
Gustofer
Khamenei.
Khomeini.
Easily confused I suppose.
________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
November 26, 2018, 10:33 AM
chellim1
quote:
Originally posted by Crom: To me, Carter seems like the qiuntessential example of how private virtue and public policy are different things and must always be recognized as different things. Carter was a very nice, charitable, "good" guy, and might even have been considered "courageous" in the fuel rod incident. But the job of President is to do what is best for America and protect America in a harsh, unfair, violent, immoral world. That requires some harshness to defend against the barbarity that would attempt to destroy our civilization. Carter was simply to weak an "nice" in his failed policies. Weakness is not seen has a kindness to be reciprocated by tyrants and fanatics. It only emboldens them.
Yes. IMO, Barack Obama was a far worse President than Jimmy Carter. He was even weaker with regard to our foreign adversaries and had none of Jimmy Carter's redeeming qualities.
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor
November 26, 2018, 10:44 AM
Gustofer
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
quote:
Originally posted by Crom: To me, Carter seems like the qiuntessential example of how private virtue and public policy are different things and must always be recognized as different things. Carter was a very nice, charitable, "good" guy, and might even have been considered "courageous" in the fuel rod incident. But the job of President is to do what is best for America and protect America in a harsh, unfair, violent, immoral world. That requires some harshness to defend against the barbarity that would attempt to destroy our civilization. Carter was simply to weak an "nice" in his failed policies. Weakness is not seen has a kindness to be reciprocated by tyrants and fanatics. It only emboldens them.
Yes. IMO, Barack Obama was a far worse President than Jimmy Carter. He was even weaker with regard to our foreign adversaries and had none of Jimmy Carter's redeeming qualities.
He also possessed the desire to "fundamentally change the United States of America" that Carter didn't.
Carter was weak and ineffective. Hadji was weak, ineffective, and evil. Far worse than Carter ever was.
I think Carter genuinely wanted the best for this country. Hadji did not.
________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
November 26, 2018, 12:04 PM
Crom
quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
He {Obama} also possessed the desire to "fundamentally change the United States of America" that Carter didn't.
Obama was infected with the socialist/collectivist mindset. He was actively anti-American, although he and his followers would never consciously admit it. They would claim to "love America", but they hated its police, its military, its economic system, its history, its foreign policy, the majority race, the majority religion, its corporations, its prosperity, its economic power, its military power, its "deplorables", and the rights clearly enunciated in the Constitution. Other than that, they "loved America".
"Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me."
November 26, 2018, 06:37 PM
Blume9mm
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
I suspect he is a nice guy and honest as politicians go but that’s not a job requirement.
There you tagged it... honest and nice.... for sure not what we usually get for a president... I'll leave it at that.
My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors"
November 27, 2018, 05:54 PM
Blackmore
Not mentioned so far, but it was Jimmy Carter and James Callaghan (UK PM) who sold out Ian Smith and the Southern Rhodesians. This ushered in decades of racist black rule by Robert Mugabe. The country's strong agricultural economy was destroyed and hyper-inflation was the rule for years.