IMO home brewed Ethanol would be much more interesting.

Funny thing about this Ethanol Free gas thing. I have a 1985 Monte Carlo SS in my garage with over 230K on the clock and it's been run on whatever premium I could find. Granted the engine has been replaced with GMPP HT383 in 2000 but the original carb is still on that engine and working perfectly. As for the original 305 that lasted to 185K miles and it got replaced due to wore out rings and a desire for more POWER. As is the fuel tank, fuel lines and the fuel pump. Frankly I am a bit shocked at the fuel pump because I would have thought it would have gone toes up after 10 years but it's still working. BTW I also have a snow blower and lawn mower that are well over 15 years old still running like clockwork.


So just what is it that Ethanol is supposed to damage?

I will also note that in the Turbo Performance crowd Ethanol and Methanol are considered essential for highly boosted engines because the evaporative cooling reduces the temps of the intake charge and it's also an octane booster. Running more that 30 psi of boost is just a fast way to total an engine if you aren't running some form of gasahol. Typically the mix starts with 25% and goes up from there as you increase the boost.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:

So just what is it that Ethanol is supposed to damage?

The ethanol starts to eat away at or embrittle many of the rubber hoses, seals, diaphragms, etc. It can also damage plastic and even fiberglass parts over time. It also absorbs water, leading to corrosion of things like the brass carburetor jets and other pieces. It can also start to corrode aluminum, zinc, and magnesium parts and their alloys. The aluminum surprised me, but it can apparently eat away at the protective oxide layer.

Galvanic corrosion is so fun! I love chemistry.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tr...1597210202/318306341

Please consider a simple solution with excellent quality and chemistry within.

Fortunately in my rural county there are at least five stations that sell ethanol free gas. I use only ethanol free gas in my yard equipment. As I understand it if the engine is designed for ethanol gas there should be no problem as long as fresh gas is used and at the end of season it is drained and the carb is run dry. Since ethanol is hygroscopic it absorbes moisture from the air and old ethanol gas can have a significant amount of water in it.

The shop that I use for work on my yard equuipment gets a lot of business from ethanol gas users.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:

So just what is it that Ethanol is supposed to damage?

The ethanol starts to eat away at or embrittle many of the rubber hoses, seals, diaphragms, etc. It can also damage plastic and even fiberglass parts over time. It also absorbs water, leading to corrosion of things like the brass carburetor jets and other pieces. It can also start to corrode aluminum, zinc, and magnesium parts and their alloys. The aluminum surprised me, but it can apparently eat away at the protective oxide layer.

Galvanic corrosion is so fun! I love chemistry.

So, how long dies this take? Please remember I have a 40 year old carburetor and 26 year old lawn mower that still work perfectly after never using ethanol free fuel.

^^ It depends...

The internet is replete with examples of this occurring, so it's NOT really a question of when or if. Your anecdotal evidence is not determinant on this subject.

Ethanol related repairs is huge for powersport dealers, boat shops and small engine repair places. Ethanol fuel problems are very real for equipment that is not used much, motorcycles that sit for a year. I see it all the time. A $9 bottle of StarTron or something similar can save the consumer quite a bit.

If you run the carb dry before storage, ethanol gas won't cause a problem with carbs.

For small motors like chainsaws and weed whackers, empty the gas out of the tank, then run the carb dry.

For larger motors that are gravity fed with a fuel shutoff valve, shut the fuel off and run the carb/carbs dry. Not shutting off the fuel shutoff valve allows all the gas in the tank to flow into the carb/carbs and evaporate; what doesn't evaporate gums up the carb/carbs.

For small outboards, disconnect the tank and run the carb/carbs dry.

I'm slow learner and in my youth failed to do this numerous times with my motorcycles, go-kart, pressure washers, lawn mowers, etc. I could probably rebuild a set of Mikunis while blind folded. I've never had to touch a single carb ever if I emptied the tank or shut the valve off and then ran the carbs dry.

19 years is the longest I’ve had a piece of equipment go doing this. A generator I ran once when I bought it in 2005 and then didn’t need for 19 years. In 2024, I changed the oil, put gas in the tank and it fired right up on the 4th or 5th pull only because I forgot to turn the key on for the first 3 pulls.

The process is simple, effective and free.

For larger motors and fuel injected ones, I use stabilizer. Fuel injection systems are sealed and evaporating gas isn't an issue, but the tanks aren't easy to empty and I don't want the gas to go bad.

For those that have no option and/or run ethanol fuel, get a can of TruFuel, and after draining and running the carb dry, add a few ounces of the TruFuel, agitate and run it dry again.

That will remove any ethanol fuel.

Extra five minutes.

A can is good for a couple years after opening.

You people and all of your logical solutions.



Stop trying to make things easier!

Don't do this, a lot of the octane is in the ethanol. I had phase seperation on my boat 93 octane turned into 83 octane after the phase seperation. No good. Either go to the airport and get 100Lowlead, or ethanol free gas from a station, or trufuel from HD or lowe's.

Things have probably changed since I last bought gasoline in New Mexico but here goes.

Where regular grade in most of the U.S. was at 87 octane in the EPA designated high altitude areas it was 86 octane. Due to the rarefied oxygen content of the air the refiners could sell that gasoline there that most of the country would consider sub-regular, economy gasoline, whatever.

Only Eddy and Chaves Counties in New Mexico are considered low altitude areas.

I was involved in auto dealership parts and service departments together with fire and EMS as a volunteer during the 80’s in New Mexico. Both “worlds” were affected by performance issues as some automotive fuels were found to have ethanol levels exceeding the 10% limit. Vapor locking, stalling, loss of MPG, spark knock and potential engine and fuel system damage resulted from this.

A time or two or more our carbureted E-350 ambulance (460 cid) would vapor lock, no good on a Code 2 or 3 run. Funny thing, the two Chevy G30’s we had didn’t experience that, only the “hot soak” no start problem that I fired with a solenoid spring change P/N 1978281 (scary that I remember that P/N yet!) but that Ford would vapor lock if you looked at it wrong.

The “fudging” was found to be especially prevalent in the Metropolitan Albuquerque and Santa Fe areas but was found in other pockets of the state.

So I guess my question is how much will the octane levels drop? Below the minimum requirements set by the engine or equipment manufacturer? How sure is this method to remove all the water from the gasoline? What do you do with the waste liquid? Seems to me at least a solution in search of a problem.

If I still lived there and was concerned about non ethanol fuels I’d just take a couple of five gallon gas cans with me when visiting the “big city”.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:
We have 2 ~70 year-old model G farm tractors.

Apples and oranges. There is a big difference in the size of carburetors and more importantly their jet diameters in small power equipment (e.g. mower) than the carburetor in tractor with a 6.8L engine.

I gave the G as the oldest example that seems to shrug off months/years old ethanol fuel with few side effects. I don't know the exact displacement, but it is most certainly NOT 6.8L. Probably in the 1.5L range or smaller.

I don't know what ethanol or ethanol-blend gasoline has in it that causes gunk. Does anyone have that answer?
I suspect it picks up gunk already in the system, then leaves it where it sits for a while. Unblended gasoline can do the same, arguably more slowly.

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:
We have 2 ~70 year-old model G farm tractors.

Apples and oranges. There is a big difference in the size of carburetors and more importantly their jet diameters in small power equipment (e.g. mower) than the carburetor in tractor with a 6.8L engine.

I gave the G as the oldest example that seems to shrug off months/years old ethanol fuel with few side effects. I don't know the exact displacement, but it is most certainly NOT 6.8L. Probably in the 1.5L range or smaller.

I assumed John Deere when you said Model G and all years are 6.8L 2 cylinder gas engine. If you have an Allis Chalmers Model G (BTW, very cool and market gardeners still rave about this unique tractor) then all years were a 1.0L Continental 4 cylinder.

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:
I don't know what ethanol or ethanol-blend gasoline has in it that causes gunk. Does anyone have that answer?
I suspect it picks up gunk already in the system, then leaves it where it sits for a while. Unblended gasoline can do the same, arguably more slowly.

Ethanol is hygroscopic meaning it absorbs humidity from the air, and it's hydrophilic meaning it forms a strong bond with water. Some of the gunk is the corrosion products from the water.

Ethanol is an excellent solvent on its own. Gasoline and water dilute some of its solvent properties.

The OH hydroxy group (i.e. the one that absorbs humidity) hydrogen bonds with other alcohols, carboxylic acids, many polar organics, and is what messes up so many gaskets/seals/hoses.

The CH₃CH₂ group interacts with oils, fats, resins, essential oils, and many organics which is why it blends so well with gasoline.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
For those that have no option and/or run ethanol fuel, get a can of TruFuel, and after draining and running the carb dry, add a few ounces of the TruFuel, agitate and run it dry again.

That will remove any ethanol fuel.

Extra five minutes.

A can is good for a couple years after opening.

I usually just drain and run dry but I’ve considered doing this with a little two cycle mix. I wonder if the tiny amount of oil in the two cycle mix would help prevent corrosion and help protect the cylinder during storage.
I never yet tried it. No one mentions doing it. Maybe there are drawbacks.
On another note, seasonal storage with fuel has never given me any troubles. If that fuel leaks and/or evaporates completely out and dry through the carb, that’s when I’ve run into trouble.

Our fuel oxidation tests on various fuels showed typical degradation of pump fuels, and ZERO oxidation of TruFuel. Storage is not an issue. I won't bore you with the Lewis structure of the base fuels present in TruFuel.

@jed7s9b

TruFuel has various "pre-mix" ratios available.

I'm sure this TruFuel stuff is great, but it's also 5x the cost of the ethanol free including the drive to get it. If my only options were that stuff and the extra drive for ethanol free, I'll be hopping in the truck.

A quart can is less than stabilizer and whiskey gas.

Run the corn squeezin's to kill the trees, then run the thing dry, put in a few oz of the TruFuel, shake juggle the chain saws, then run e'em dry and put them away.

I said the same thing earlier, never said to use it as the only fuel.

If you decide to go with separation a Speed Queen may improve the process.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:

So just what is it that Ethanol is supposed to damage?

The ethanol starts to eat away at or embrittle many of the rubber hoses, seals, diaphragms, etc. It can also damage plastic and even fiberglass parts over time. It also absorbs water, leading to corrosion of things like the brass carburetor jets and other pieces. It can also start to corrode aluminum, zinc, and magnesium parts and their alloys. The aluminum surprised me, but it can apparently eat away at the protective oxide layer.

Galvanic corrosion is so fun! I love chemistry.

Guess you sort of missed that bit about the Quadrajet made in 1985 still running perfectly after 41 years of being run on whatever was available. I will also note that the only reason I have EVER replaced a Lawn mower is because the rings got so wore out than I got tired of walking in a cloud of blue smoke because the rings wore out. I will also note that I shop for the least expensive mower available because I find walk behinds to be good exercise and typically they last just fine for 15 or 20 years with just a yearly oil change.

To be blunt I find all these ethanol concerns way overblown. But what do I know, I've only been working on cars and engines since 1965.