My brother lives in a world of "How much more debt can we maintain? (How much more can we borrow?)" and views my well-meaning gifts with dismissive eyebrows to his wife.

So stop with the gifts.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
So stop with the gifts.

Thread's done.

I cannot fathom looking upon any gift with disdain. I'm sorry your brother is strange in this way. I hope you otherwise have a good relationship.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodman:
well-meaning gifts

Books by David Ramsey and financial responsibility self-help books and tools?

Woodman, a little more detail please. What are the gifts?

Just a general observation. You get your house in order and sometimes others want to take bricks from your foundation.

Twenty years ago I asked a well-off property developer of $25M net worth, "How do you handle it when family members ask for money?" He looks me in the eye, and he says, "You just say NO."

Family traditionally exchanges $20-$30 gifts at Christmas but bro, he is sometimes topsy-turvy. Gave his wife a nice used $4k car, two weeks later he's hinting he wants a new $800 grille.

I'm guessing that there is more than one person here who has been hit up for a loan in the tens of thousands or asked to co-sign a refi in the hundreds of thousands (the latter is being hinted towards me).
I try to stick with what I know, and I know nothing about such agreements except: "Neither a lender nor borrower be" and "A fool and his money are soon parted". Plus the general observation that many who cannot manage their money will manage other people's money even more badly; i.e. walking away from debt without remorse, leaving the co-signer to deal with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodman:
I'm guessing that there is more than one person here who has been hit up for a loan in the tens of thousands or asked to co-sign a refi in the hundreds of thousands (the latter is being hinted towards me).
I try to stick with what I know, and I know nothing about such agreements except: "Neither a lender nor borrower be" and "A fool and his money are soon parted". Plus the general observation that many who cannot manage their money will manage other people's money even more badly; i.e. walking away from debt without remorse, leaving the co-signer to deal with it.

Woodman - you already know the answer to your question.

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asked to co-sign a refi in the hundreds of thousands (the latter is being hinted towards me)

Run away, and fast, from this.

The most profound and useful thing you could give your brother would be the knowledge and perspective needed to achieve the level of financial comfort you feel he envies. Note that you will almost certainly have to give something similar to his spouse. We probably all have a "Cousin Eddie" in our lives. Curing his irresponsibility and sense of entitlement would be the best thing you could possibly do for him, and you'ld be giving yourself a valuable gift too.

quote:

Twenty years ago I asked a well-off property developer of $25M net worth, "How do you handle it when family members ask for money?" He looks me in the eye, and he says, "You just say NO."

This.

When we got married, we made two vows to each other: nobody moves in with us and we don’t lend family members money.

So far it’s worked for 20 years.

No. Is the answer I give when anyone wants money . Family or not.

And I’m damn sure not putting my name on someone else’s debt.

My first wife ran up a buncha debt before we got divorced that I knew nothing about and I got saddled with it because she had put my name on the cards...nothing I could do about it legally but pay them...and I had to pay them all....just a tactic she used to try and destroy me.