quote:

Originally posted by DanH:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
If I were able to own a 4 door sedan it would almost certainly be an AWD Charger with the V8.

Except you can't. V8s are all now RWD only.

You can put me fully in the hater category for the Charger/Challenger. The platform came out in 2005 using the rear end from the Mercedes W211 platform that was already a generation old when it came out. The platform is 17 years old now when every other automaker has replaced their chassis twice in the same amount of time. The steering is slack, the cars are overly heavy, and about the only improvement has been getting rid of the old Mercedes 5 speed auto for the 8 speed ZF auto that almost every European automaker uses.

Except for the Hellcat, there's nothing it does that the Chevy SS can't do better. If you really want one, wait a year or two for the brand new one that's coming.

????
I just looked at one of our brand new 2017s. V8 and AWD. We took delivery last week. Our buying matrix shows that the AWD will be available in'18 as well. Not sure at all where you got your information.

Of these two, I would go for the Challenger. I think they did the retro look perfect when they came out. Scat Pack with the shaker looks awesome. With manual trans and pistol grip shifter (all other misgivings too heavy, doesn't turn - get forgotten by the looks).

The chassis has been updated extensively which is one reason you can't get the AWD with the V8. The chassis had to be updated when they went with the 8 speed automatic. Sure they use some of the suspension pieces and such but that doesn't make a chassis.

It's no Alpha platform that the Camaro uses but because it was based on a luxury car to start you get many of the same benefits. When you close a door it doesn't sound cheap, the interior is quiet, and the ride is much better. It's definitely heavier than the Camaro but that's why you have a usable trunk, back seat, and plenty of legroom and visibility.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
If I were able to own a 4 door sedan it would almost certainly be an AWD Charger with the V8.

Except you can't. V8s are all now RWD only.

You can put me fully in the hater category for the Charger/Challenger. The platform came out in 2005 using the rear end from the Mercedes W211 platform that was already a generation old when it came out. The platform is 17 years old now when every other automaker has replaced their chassis twice in the same amount of time. The steering is slack, the cars are overly heavy, and about the only improvement has been getting rid of the old Mercedes 5 speed auto for the 8 speed ZF auto that almost every European automaker uses.

Except for the Hellcat, there's nothing it does that the Chevy SS can't do better. If you really want one, wait a year or two for the brand new one that's coming.

????
I just looked at one of our brand new 2017s. V8 and AWD. We took delivery last week. Our buying matrix shows that the AWD will be available in'18 as well. Not sure at all where you got your information.

Police fleet get the Pursuit models not available through standard channels.
Only the V6 comes is AWD now for regular dealerships.
I of course would buy used so the V8 AWD would certainly be an option.

I find that fascinating. Looks like that may sway what I buy on the first responder package when I buy a new one.

Have you priced new on the first responder deal at Freedom?

So two days ago I test drove both a Charger and a Challenger, both V6's. I was fairly impressed with the get up and go - more than any V6 I've driven before - and decided that's probably the engine I'll end up going with. Today, just to make sure, I drove another Challenger with the 5.7L V8. Got it out on a straightaway and put my foot in it a little. All I can say is, HOLY CRAP. That thing is waaaayyy more engine than I need. I can't imagine doing that with a 392, let alone a Hellcat. I'm pretty sure I'd probably wind up in the ditch. I suppose you get used to it though, if you live long enough.

Practicality is going to win out over testosterone this time. Visibility is a problem in the Challenger, and the back seats have about zero leg room when the front seats are adjusted for a normal size human adult. So Charger it will be, a RWD SXT, probably with the Rallye package.

Now all I have to do is get some financial ducks lined up. That'll take a few weeks, but come Labor Day or thereabouts I should have new wheels. I greatly appreciate everybody's input on this.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Expert308,

Problem is with a 6 cyl engine is that you'll likely get comparable gas mileage to the V8 but with less power, as the smaller engine will work harder to get the car up to speed.

V8s are generally more reliable, and more durable since they don't have to struggle to keep up with the car's weight as much.

Even with my comparatively small 5.0 engine Mustang and 3.73 rear gears I barely have to give it any gas to get it moving.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:



FYI the current V6 has more power than the 5.0 V8 Mustang GT of the late 90's and those were a hoot to drive...

A lot of people overlook this fact and are hung up on V-8s. Who doesn't love a V-8? But at least look at the reality of the 6. It is a lot of power.

Then, to completely ignore that comment; my brother-in-law loves his Challenger. He has the one with the second most powerful V-8. It will, of course, go faster than you are allowed to drive and gets there real quick. A lot.

I was a passenger in a Challenger with the largest v8 available (I THINK it was turbocharged from the factory as well), and I can attest to the truth of that statement. It was a real throwback, but with all the modern technology, a real gem.

While not either. Basically the same platform

I bought the R/T Magnum the first year they came out. Great vehicle. Had the 5.7L V8 (SRT not released yet)

Found a SRT cat back exhaust system guy was selling, installed it, K&N CAI and filter, reprogrammed chip to the 93 octane performance tune from a diablo tuner. SCAREY FAST!!! I could
Break the tires free at 60... I quickly reprogrammed to something not as aggressive

I put 185,000 miles on it.

Definitely do get the Rallye package. It is worth it.

Well, just to tie this thread up I have to state that the statement in my last "final" post about practicality winning out over testosterone, turned out to be total BS. Somewhere along the way I had completely fallen for the retro muscle car look of the Challenger. I had a long sit-down talk with myself and came to the realization that if I bought the Charger I would probably spend the entire time I owned it wishing that I'd bought the Challenger instead. And on the engine: same talk, same realization. My financial ducks lined up quicker than I had expected, so a month ago now I became the owner of a 2016 Challenger R/T Shaker. It was the dealer's demo car and they wanted to move it because it was a year old and had 4K miles on it, so they made me a good deal. It has a couple of options (including the Shaker) that I wouldn't have chosen otherwise, but in the long run I decided between the price and the hopefully enhanced eventual resale value, I went for it.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't buy a muscle car without the muscle.

It does seem like kind of a "what's the point?" sort of thing, doesn't it? But I guess there are people that love the look but don't care about the muscle. I THOUGHT I was one of them. On the other hand, there's a Challenger owners forum that I went and looked at. They have a section for model-specific threads that's subdivided for SXT (V6), R/T (5.7L V8), SRT (6.4L V8), and Hellcat. I looked around in the SXT section and found - I'm not exaggerating - about 90% of the threads were guys looking to make their SXTs look and sound like R/Ts or even SRTs. Talk about buyer's remorse!

Few people have ever said, I wish I got the V-6....

If you haven't seen Death Proof, you need to watch it now that you are a Challenger owner.

One other difference, when I tracked the Challenger and Charger a Chrysler SRT track day, the professional driver noted (and I observed) that the Challenger feels like it is "in" the track, while the Charger feels like it is "on" the track. The Challenger felt more natural and in control than the Charger.

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:

Beautiful ride! Congratulations!

*sigh* Challengers bring back my misspent youth, street racing on Woodward Ave. in S.E. Michigan. I drool every time I see one.

Never been a MOPAR guy, but, if I were to buy a modern-day muscle car, I think it would have to be a Challenger.

You made it one & one-third pages before someone started talking about foreign cars. Congratulations.

The first thing a friend of mine did after driving my Challenger R/T right after test driving a 6 cylinder car (The 3.6, not the weaker 3.5) was call the dealer to kill the order he had in for a loaded V6 car. He ended up buying a leftover V8 car and he loves it. The difference in mileage is so minor, I see no point in buying a V6 Challenger ,300, or Charger.

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
It has a couple of options (including the Shaker)

Nice car, Congrats. As previously stated, I really like shakers. One could argue modern engines don't idle as aggressive as they used to (with out a tune at least)....but I still like the look.

Congrats on your purchase! Very slick ride.

Just to add for anyone still following and looking for opinions on the Charger as well, especially considering a few other posters discussing the AWD V8 Police trims...

Finally got to drive one of the AWD Chargers recently. Fully optioned 2014 R/T, heated and cooled every-way-adjustable leather seats, heated wheel, heated and cooled CUPHOLDERS, sunroof, infotainment, the works. Big car on the inside. Neither me nor my buddy are small dudes (6' and 6'2" respectively) and fit easily in the backseat. Trunk is probably rated to six bodies, more if you've got a hacksaw. The lickeys and chewies are NICE, especially considering the newest car I own as a 2004, and the newest car I've driven with any regularity was a 2009.

Very, very impressed with the vehicle's qualities. Turning radius and overall quickness make the vehicle feel dramatically smaller than it is. On the highway this thing is a BEAST. It accelerates and handles far under its weight class, but has that solidity and comfort that reminds you it's a big sedan. I'm going to a Charger from a 2004 Mach 1 Mustang with the auto, and I really don't feel a loss of performance in the highway arena. You can mat it in the Charger and the car just goes, as opposed to the "are you sure? HERE WE GO!" hesitation and snap-downshift from the 4spd auto in the Mach. There's a linear application and predictability to the Charger that I really like.

When you hustle this thing, you don't so much feel the AWD as feel like the car should be oversteering or understeering or squirreling around at the back end and...it isn't. If you push it outside of its comfort zone you start to lose steering but it's gradual, not the dramatic "what the hell are you doing!?!?!" of many rear-wheel-drive muscle cars I've driven. And when you back off, everything comes right back, no drama. Mashing the pedal means you just go - no drama. Don't get me wrong, it's not a boring car to drive - I thought it was lively as hell - but it's lively in a fun way, not the "suck the seat cushion between your cheeks" way.

Overall the car never lets you forget it's a 4500lb sport-luxury sedan, but handles a class smaller. Big, comfy, very well optioned, and fun. I've hustled around P71s and Marauders and it's got that same big-grin "hustling around a big sedan fast" feel, but the car feels much more composed and at home being hustled than the Panther platform does.

I'm completely sold and now actively looking for one. Passed on the model we drove, dealer wanted too much money for condition, but as rare as they are there seem to be quite a few options on CarGurus and AutoTrader. The hunt continues.