We've all but quit dining out with any expectations.

A $200+ ticket for two people without drinks isn't difficult to hit in Alaska.

Lately, especially "off-season," the only real expectation is not getting sick afterward.

We're at the point where buying one of those one-time use BBQs at the grocery store, some spices, sides, plates, and silverware, and a couple of steaks...cooking them in the parking lot is not only cheaper but tastes better and is guaranteed not to make us sick. I get tempted to do this in the parking lot of a bunch of these seasonal restaurants and tourist favorites.

In many cases, it comes down to the unavailability of restaurants to source quality foods. The major suppliers have lowered standards and increased costs. Where I live, there are only two suppliers of food for restaurants, and only one source of meat. Then there is the discussion about the same pool of methheads that just shift around from restaurant to restaurant.

I've probably been involved in the sale of 10% of the restaurants on the Kenai Peninsula and have toured their kitchens and facilities. I've only seen two in the last 12 years that I'd let my family eat at.

One thing we never trust is the opinions of locals in Alaska. It's like people who've grown up here have no taste buds. I think they've just never had good food, so they don't know what it is. Online reviews and local recommendations are worthless. They're either full of reviews of friends' places or a tourist who went there once during peak season, often years prior, remembers it differently from reality. Meanwhile, the seasonal staff have moved on...

Tourists would be surprised how little "Alaskan" seafoods sold in restaurants are frozen crap provided by a restaurant supply that never came from Alaskan waters.

I enjoy good food. Have never been to a Michelin star restaurant.

The last time I took my wife to a 'high end' steak place in Indianapolis, it was disappointing for the cost.

I can buy prime beef and cook steaks to perfection at home.

Same thing with salmon and scallops, etc.

We have a few (non chain) places we like to go that are ~$60 per entree. That's worth it for a night out.

This is one of our regular places:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Re...ewport_Kentucky.html

I'm too much of a country bumpkin to want to regularly go to the really fancy places.

Maybe I just don't know what I am missing. I will readily admit to that.

For $250 I'd buy a call girl to eat food off of. My brain can't wrap around that price otherwise.

We go to Wolf Mountain Vineyards for a nice brunch.

Tabitha had me take her to Stony River in Roswell for her birthday. I lucked up and got the booth by the fireplace. Well, I asked the server for it and she moved us over to it and I gave her a really good cash tip. It was worth the hundo to see Tabitha happy.

My wife and I cook pretty well at home. Our first expectation is that when we go out to a nicer place, the food has to be at least as good as what we can do at home.

Sadly, fine dining options outside of major cities are a challenge.

We have had some amazing experiences dining out. Sadly a couple of those places no longer exist. The exec chef owner of one of them is a friend. She still does private dinners a few times a year for customers with the facility and willingness to pay for them. We have another chef/owner acquaintance who still runs a fine dining restaurant and does some amazing meals.

My wife likes a place in Louisville that we will drive the 5 hours and stay overnight just to dine there. Dinner for two is in the OP's price bracket.

Our nearest city, Detroit has a pretty decent restaurant scene downtown. My son and I ate at a Japanese restaurant last year which checked all the boxes (atmosphere, attentive staff and excellent food. Dinner for 2 was closer to $400.

Ok, tonight was my third try. Well rated, nice looking menu, and it turned out pretty good, but not what I was hoping for the price. It wasn't their fault, I ordered something I new might not work out, since my food knowledge is 0.1 on a scale of 1 to 10, but I often take chances just out of curiosity and wanting to learn about food. So I ordered Pork Schnitzel, not knowing what it was. Well I just looked it up after gettomg home, and it turns out they gave me exactly what I read about, and did a good job of it. It was cooked right and based on what I read about it, they did a nice job. But it didn't come with anything else like a baked potato or any veggies etc. I thought that a little curious, except the size of the meat was large, and after eating the whole thing, I could not have eaten any sides, since it was very filling.

However, I learned something important about myself regarding food, and I think a previous poster summed it up nicely. Reading konata88's posts in this thread, a man who knows and participated in fine dining for a long time, he said something that I think is helpful to me:

Quoting konata99:
"I'm satisfied with just good food, friendly service at a reasonable price."

That's an interesting statement coming from a patron of long years of fine dining.

Thinking about it I think that's were I must land. I say that because I recall two dinners in the last year from one particular restaurant only a few miles from my house. Both of those meals were memorable, and better than the last three from the finer establishments discussed since my OP. I said my limit was three strikes and I'm out. But I don't consider this a failure, to me it was a scientific experiment. It sounds funny but that's the way I do most things in my life.

So I think my science is telling me to go to where the food is best for ME. Not what's best for others with true Epicurean (looked that up) tastes for fine dining, but what is the best food for me and mine. So for me that food is regular food I grew up on, done just right. And none of that food is anything close to fancy, and most of us know exactly what that is. Those two meals at a regular joe restaurant a few miles from my house, were the best two meals I've had in recent memory, and they were better, and one third the price of the other three nice places. For sure the atmosphere is nothing nice like the fancy places, but it's a very good atmosphere for me, since that's the way I've always lived, like a regular joe, and most everyone else patronizing that place are the same way, regular folks enjoying a great meal at a reasonable price, and just like me. There's great comfort hanging with folks you understand and know because you're one of them. And not so ironically the same is probably true for others who dine on the other side of the tracks.

So I think konata99 summed it up perfectly. His "experiment" lasted some decades, and mine lasted only six months, but it saves me money to go to my new favorite restaurant right next to my house, where I can get better and more enjoyable food, for ME, at one third the price, which is regular joe food done VERY nicely.

So Kudos to konata, my patron saint of Fine, aka Great, regular dining of the food I really like.

So the result of my experiment is to go forth to your favorite place you know and enjoy the best, whether it's a regular joe place, a fancy place, or a twenty Michelin star place. If you like it the best, that's the best place for YOU. I know you guys already knew that, but I'm slow, a fact not everyone is unware.

As I always say, if you want the answer to your quest, you will always find it first in the Great Sigforum.

Merry Christmas to all.

benny6 told my wife and me about the ten dollar lunch burger at Longhorn. We tried it last week. Probably the best combination of good burger / reasonable price that we have found in the last few years.

Most places serve burgers that are overcooked, dried out. Longhorn actually served medium rare when I requested that.

@wrightd.

Simple food, is very, very hard to do well.

The demographic collapse isn’t helping.

We have now lost chocolate quality, along with vanilla, peaches and strawberries.

It’s a chance to create, with what’s left, and to try to solve some issues, but it’s a bit painful to work with some of it.

quote:

Our young son loved to eat out with us at higher end restaurants. He always dressed for it, and behaved appropriately. I can’t recall how many times we had diners stop by our table and compliment us.

One time, and only once, in my and my wife’s experience eating in restaurants have we observed this. A not very fancy (or even very good, frankly) Italian restaurant off I-15 in the Poway area. A couple was eating with their two sons, who were well dressed, wearing jackets and ties, well-groomed, and their behavior was impeccable. The boys were probably 10-12. As with your experiences, we complimented the parents, and saved that away in our memories for things to do with our grandkids.

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
We've all but quit dining out with any expectations.

A $200+ ticket for two people without drinks isn't difficult to hit in Alaska.

Lately, especially "off-season," the only real expectation is not getting sick afterward.

We're at the point where buying one of those one-time use BBQs at the grocery store, some spices, sides, plates, and silverware, and a couple of steaks...cooking them in the parking lot is not only cheaper but tastes better and is guaranteed not to make us sick. I get tempted to do this in the parking lot of a bunch of these seasonal restaurants and tourist favorites.

In many cases, it comes down to the unavailability of restaurants to source quality foods. The major suppliers have lowered standards and increased costs. Where I live, there are only two suppliers of food for restaurants, and only one source of meat. Then there is the discussion about the same pool of methheads that just shift around from restaurant to restaurant.

I've probably been involved in the sale of 10% of the restaurants on the Kenai Peninsula and have toured their kitchens and facilities. I've only seen two in the last 12 years that I'd let my family eat at.

One thing we never trust is the opinions of locals in Alaska. It's like people who've grown up here have no taste buds. I think they've just never had good food, so they don't know what it is. Online reviews and local recommendations are worthless. They're either full of reviews of friends' places or a tourist who went there once during peak season, often years prior, remembers it differently from reality. Meanwhile, the seasonal staff have moved on...

Tourists would be surprised how little "Alaskan" seafoods sold in restaurants are frozen crap provided by a restaurant supply that never came from Alaskan waters.

Totally agree. The entire industry has turned to garbage. There used to be 100’s of small suppliers providing all the ingredients and pre-made items for all the restaurants. Now we have 3 massive companies that were allowed to buy everyone out so all these restaurants have the same basic food. Buy a popper here and it’s the same thing as a popper when you’re out of state on vacation. If you go to a chain you’re essentially getting a dolled up tv dinner. The only way to avoid it is going to a mom & pop type of place and even then they are most likely going to use some premade items to remain competitive.

Go into a kitchen now and there will be rows of microwaves and water baths to churn out everything from hors d'oeuvres to entire meals all the way through dessert.

I’m just blown away by how many people pay top dollar for this kind of an experience. Every restaurant near me is packed. There’s even a Mexican restaurant that it’s so obvious that everything is pre packaged that I only went one time.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
So that's basically the question. How often in your experience does the quality of the food correlate with the quality of dining experience itself, for sake of argument, more or less, for four star establishments ?

Decades ago, my wife and I celebrated our anniversary, that coincided with a very generous performance bonus she got, with a dinner at the French Laundry in CA. Back then, it was by phone reservation and it was difficult, but we finally got a spot in the line up. There were two fixed meals, a Chef's Tasting and a Vegetarian Tasting and we got both, along with a "budget" bottle of German Riesling at a 100 bucks. Needless to say, the meal was the most expensive in our lives. And needless to say, the plate servings were very small, but exceptional quality in ingredients and preparation, along with outstanding service. The food was the star, but setting, service, etc. all played a part in the awesome dining experience. But I received a similar experience in Japan, Kyoto specifically, at a Michelin rated tonkatsu (deep-fried pork) restaurant which was tiny, bare bones. And the cost of my meal, including a large Sapporo beer, was less than 20 dollars.

Interesting. I can't imagine a michelin rated tonkatsu-ya. I wonder what distinguishes them from the many other tonkatsu-ya's. I can't imagine that it's because the food is that much better. There are many fantastic tonkatsu-ya's in Ginza, Shinjuku and Osaka. Can't throw a stone w/o hitting one.

Do you know if it's still around? Maybe I'll try it next time I go. I'm very curious because tonkatsu is one of my most favorite meals.

It's also suprising that it's in Kyoto. Doesn't seem like tonkatsu would be that popular there to warrant someone pursuing michelin level qualities. Osaka maybe. Perhaps even Tokyo. Surprised in Kyoto unless it was political.

Still, would be curious to try. Each trip to Japan, I will try to go to a tonkatsu-ya, sushi-ya, izakaya-ya, okonomiyaki-ya, ramen-ya, oden-ya (or shabu-shabu), tempura-ya. That's my dinner for the week. I seek out well reviewed tonkatsu-ya and sushi-ya and tempura-ya. I'm more forgiving w/ the other places. If I'm in a new region, I'll try to local variation of soba.

wrightd: thank you for the kind words. glad you found what's right for you sooner that i did. it's one of my life's regrets. epicurean endeavers are pure expense in my retrospective opinion and when one is on buying ferrari's on a corolla budget, one should be investing rather than spending. for me, better late than never i guess. i finally have my priorities and preferences straight. glad you reached a perspective you can accept in much shorter time.

I have never paid more than $25 a plate for any dining out food. And I have had some great meals.