quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
... older places like Stars, Aquarello, Farralon, Rubicon, Fluer de Leis or Gary Danko.

I've frequented and loved all of those places back in the day. Brings back memories. Fleur I think had the curved staircase down to the dining area?

I had a list of 30-40 go-to places, including the above, at one point. Haven't been to any for at least 20 years though. Fond memories but I could retire much more comfortably now had I not patronized those places back then. Fond regrets?

There were some good places in Menlo Park, Saratoga and Palo Alto as well. Can't remember the names though.

Funny - I couldn't name one fine dining place now that would be worth the price paid. I just haven't had any interest in going to one. I'll note any recommendations for anything on the peninsula not in SF; perhaps I'll try one again someday should the occasion arise.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:
"Fine dining" ...

None of those places would be considered fine-dining, ...

There is a reason why I put it in quotation marks.

For me the high end places are probably more about the entire experience. As far as the food goes I think a lot of it is because you are often getting to try a food or prep that you rarely get.

Of course the service has to be second to none. As in the women get a small padded bench quietly put next to them so they have a place to set their purse or a guy that keeps an eye on table crumbs and swings by with a specific tool to scoop up any crumbs from bread or anything else that hit the tablecloth. You should never have to ask for more of anything on your table.

Years ago I went to such a fancy place that they had some kind of a projector on the ceiling that put on a show for your table. The waiter would bring over a soup to start and these little characters would show up on your table and run up to your plate pushing a small miniature wheelbarrow full of broccoli or whatever type of soup you had and pull up next to your bowl and start dumping ingredients in. Obviously the ingredients were already in there but they made it look like these characters were building each course. Very cool idea that I’ve never seen since.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
Years ago I went to such a fancy place that they had some kind of a projector on the ceiling that put on a show for your table. The waiter would bring over a soup to start and these little characters would show up on your table and run up to your plate pushing a small miniature wheelbarrow full of broccoli or whatever type of soup you had and pull up next to your bowl and start dumping ingredients in. Obviously the ingredients were already in there but they made it look like these characters were building each course. Very cool idea that I’ve never seen since.

That sounds cute! Creative.

The most expensive, high end meal for me, if you can call it that since one sits on the floor (tatami mats), was a kaiseki (not sure how to translate - kind of like prix fixe?) at a ryokan (inn?) in Japan. I think I've repressed the cost.

One of the most expensive but least enjoyable I had was also in Japan (in Gion, Kyoto) in a supposedly traditional restaurant. The entree / theme was hamo (some type of fish, not sure the english name). I couldn't eat more than 2 bites. First was a surprise, second was to confirm that it was unedible. I'll never order hamo again.

Japan has a lot of fine dining. But of all the cuisine diversity, my favorite is fine Italian food in Japan. I've never been to Italy but I bet the Italian restaurants in Japan could give Italy a run for its money. At least for my taste preferences. Interestingly enough (for me), my favorite restaurant in Taipei is also Italian. Maybe I just have a bias for Italian restaurants.

Man, this thread brings back a lifetime of memories.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
Of course the service has to be second to none. As in the women get a small padded bench quietly put next to them so they have a place to set their purse or a guy that keeps an eye on table crumbs and swings by with a specific tool to scoop up any crumbs from bread or anything else that hit the tablecloth. You should never have to ask for more of anything on your table.

I was staying in a hotel that was waaaay out of my budget in Rome when traveling for work and my wife flew over to meet me. We ate dinner one night in the hotel's restaurant and it was like that. Each time you would take a drink of your water someone would appear and fill it. Eat a piece of bread and they replace the little plate and the butter dish. Not being used to it, we felt it was over the top but we enjoyed it anyway. The food was outstanding.

quote:

Originally posted by sooma:
…

Crayfish boils in Louisiana with my cajun navy folks.

…

While I agree with the gist of your post, this is borderline offensive. We eat CRAWfish!

Personally, I have always said that I’m like those commercials with Charlie the Tuna, where the narrator says “Sorry, Charlie. Starkist wants tuna that tastes good, not tuna with good taste!” I want food that tastes good, not food with good taste!

While I appreciate fine dining and great service, I’m happier with a crawfish poboy than a boring fancy dish.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
One of the most expensive but least enjoyable I had was also in Japan (in Gion, Kyoto) in a supposedly traditional restaurant. The entree / theme was hamo (some type of fish, not sure the english name).

It's been a long time, but isn't that a type of Sea Eel

The one time I had it was many years ago at a sushi place at the Santa Monica airport...it was part of their omakase menu...that I was invited to as part of a GGI class. The chef explained it was a Kyoto seasonal (summer)specialty

Why located at an small airport you might ask...it was to make it easier to fly in fresh fish daily from Japan. It also accommodated Japanese businessmen flying in on their corporate jets for a meal...the whole place only had 10 tables and our party of 6 ate at the sushi bar. Never had a chance to go back as they were closed down for serving Blue Whale

Makes sense. One of the few sushiya I have enjoyed in the US is in Hawaii near the airport. It's actually just a small room with a sushi counter and two (at the time) Japanese sushi chefs (certified in Japan). The counter served about 10 people total; only have water and tea; bring your own beer / sake if you want. No wait staff, just the two chefs.

The counter room / sushiya was actually part of a seafood import/export business for Hawaii so all kinds of fresh seafood, many of it live, on location.

Had lobster 3 ways (one lobster - sashimi, miso soup, forgot the 3rd way). And other fresh, well prepared sushi. That was expensive - about $100 per person (30 years ago for just sushi only).

It's been about 30 years but I'd probably go again if I were in the area (assuming it's still there). Owner (Australian) gave me tour of the import business too.

Other than that and a few select places, I don't eat sushi in the US (despite an affinity for it); I only eat sushi in Japan.

I’ve spent $250 for a dinner for my wife and I before, sans alcohol. I really can’t think of a meal that cost that much (or more) where the food wasn’t really good to great and the service was at least good. Now we’ve been taken out for a business dinner that I wasn’t impressed with the food and/or service where I’m sure it was more than $250 a couple.

Octopus, squid and Hollandaise sauce are the three things that let me know how good the food is at a restaurant, generally speaking.

Some of my favorite restaurants didn’t make it past Covid, government inflation, and changing views on work by potential workers. Right now we are looking for a replacement steakhouse that isn’t too far or too expensive but can still properly cook steaks. Did I mention that our local Morton’s changed the recipe of their crab cakes, that were the best in the valley to something I won’t order ever again? Hmm, maybe this last part should go in “What’s Your Deal!”

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:
"Fine dining" ...

None of those places would be considered fine-dining, ...

There is a reason why I put it in quotation marks.

I just started using readers and I've got to get used to using them, makes a difference.

Some of the most expensive meals I've had have been the worst.

I'm with Sooma..."street food" is where it's at. Or local hole-in-the-wall greasy spoon type places. They're not all good, but if you find the right one it's a treasure.

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Originally posted by pedropcola:
I guess I’m a cheapskate. 250 bucks for the wife and I without alcohol I find to be a very pricy meal. If it was ok but not great I would feel robbed. As for margins I call bullshit. Expensive restaurants are padding their prices because they can. Here is a great example. No booze, 2 people, $250, the food was “ok”, and the OP isn’t really even complaining. Yikes.

I have a dozen restaurants I can eat near me that the meal is good and while not inexpensive, not 250 before booze. My wife isn’t eating a nice meal without a 15-20 dollar cocktail or two.

I'm not complaining, I'm asking how my experience compares with others' experiences. Unlike yourslef, I didn't feel robbed, not because I'm used to wasting money, but because it was worth it for the experience for an important celebration. My normal resutrant meals for two run 35 to $60, if that makes any more sense to you. And my OP was not about outstanding or amazing street food, the subject had nothing to do with that aspect of eating out.

What makes it important for me to find a fine dining place is keeping those little screaming rug rats out of the restaurant.

What I seek out in fine dining experiences is not really just high quality ingredients expertly prepared. It's more than just, say, the freshest, highest quality wild copper river salmon or king salmon with perfectly made hollandaise sauce.

It's more about finding unique, one of a kind dishes that you would only find at the one restaurant. This is easier, I think, in french themed restaurants so fine dining for me is generally french. This is not to say fine dining can't be other cuisines. One of my favorites is osso bucco at a local higher end italian restaurant.

Just saying that fine dining can be about popular dishes, expertly prepared with the finest ingredients. Or it can be about unique, creative recipes expertly prepared using the finest ingredients.

Well, last week we struck out again, at a reportedly nice resturant with good ratings. It wasn't like the previous very expensive place with not so good food, but was still highly rated. Again the food was not notable, and they totally ruined a Halibut steak, though it should have been good based on ratings and the price.

So I'm trying yet another, well rated local establishment. If I strike out again that will be my first "nice resturants" 3 count strikeout in a row.

If I lived in a fancier city I'm sure this would be easier. You'd think there are great restauranteers in sufficient density most everwhere where you could reasonably expect them, but there are not. But I'm not known for great luck or good instincts in the finer points of life, so I hope this is just a streak of bad luck.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
There were some good places in Menlo Park, Saratoga and Palo Alto as well. Can't remember the names though.

Lived in Saratoga for 14 years...I'm guessing you might be thinking the Plumed Horse on Big Basin Way? It's had a Michelin star since 2009.

Seriously, ditch the Michelin guide.

AAA diamond guide was good, once.

James Beard is pretty decent.

Good food isn’t in high end.

The economics of it doesn’t make sense.

I have had very technical, demanding dishes at very high end restaurants - but they are so on edge with consistency/presentation etc they have to give up some flavor.

Go with places which ONLY live on flavor. Look for a place where the parking lot has work trucks and new Cadillacs in the parking lot.

(Ferraris can be a bad sign, along with Bently GTs. Lambos are a bad sign. Big boy Bently sedans/Rolls Royces are good signs.)

quote:

Originally posted by Kilroy2721:
What makes it important for me to find a fine dining place is keeping those little screaming rug rats out of the restaurant.

Have a lot of fun memories of eating in nice restaurants with our then quite young children (now both adults). More than once had folks ask to be moved when seated by us only to come by later and say how well behaved our kids were. They’re never going to learn how to behave in public if you don’t take them out, but you have to make sure to teach them how to behave so they’ll be welcomed back.

I grew up in the NYC metro area, where there are thousands of restaurants, but the best meals I have had were in other cities.

I lived / worked in Barcelona for a year and a half. Northeaster Spain, just an hour or so from the French border, so we had the best of both cuisines. Can't remember the names of some of the restaurants, but I could find my way back to them.

Chicago. Fifty years ago. Such a selection of really good eating! Ireland's for seafood, Jovan, L'Escargot, The Bakery, ... they're all gone now.

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Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by Kilroy2721:
What makes it important for me to find a fine dining place is keeping those little screaming rug rats out of the restaurant.

Have a lot of fun memories of eating in nice restaurants with our then quite young children (now both adults). More than once had folks ask to be moved when seated by us only to come by later and say how well behaved our kids were. They’re never going to learn how to behave in public if you don’t take them out, but you have to make sure to teach them how to behave so they’ll be welcomed back.

Our young son loved to eat out with us at higher end restaurants. He always dressed for it, and behaved appropriately. I can’t recall how many times we had diners stop by our table and compliment us.
Now, we didn’t eat in at McDonald’s so he never learned the chaos theory there. He knew if we were going out to eat out it was special, we dress well, and our best manners are on display.
He’s a young teen now, but still behaves well at nice restaurants. He has now been introduced to “kid themed” dining, and he’s all in for that, too, but can distinguish the difference.