We ate out at a nice restaurant this weekend, and as you would expect it was a nice experience. I don't patronize fine dining very often, but when I have, I remember all of them in some detail and they are all valuable memories.

However with this last visit the food was ok, but it wasn't great. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't as good as you might expect for an expensive meal. In this case I'm not knocking the place, this family runs it very well, with notable fine service and attention, the atmosphere and the view on the water was perfect. The wait staff are all very professional in traditional uniforms with watchful and notable personal attention to detail, obvious professionals, but the food was just OK which surprised me a little. The presentation of the food was great, was cooked perfectly, but it just lacked flavor or any creativity in that department.

For this visit it was $250 for two without drinks. For that price and level of experience it obviously isn't a 5 star establishment, even though the service was, since I had visited a 5 star four decades ago, and paid the same price then that I paid this weekend.

I'm sure in big cities in better parts of town it would be fairly predictable, since places not competing well would soon go out of business with lots of very close competition. In my case this establishment was well known with a solid long-standing reputation, but the competition at their level was not close by. So I'm guessing maybe that was it, or possibly because many of the customers were regular frequent locals who were more interested with the atmosphere, familiarity, and regular closeness with friends, but that's just me guessing.

So that's basically the question. How often in your experience does the quality of the food correlate with the quality of dining experience itself, for sake of argument, more or less, for four star establishments ? Since I'm not a five star diner, we can rule those guys out, since the answer to the question for those guys is obvious.

I ate at a nicer restaurant near Park City a couple of weeks ago. About 1/2 what you paid. I had grilled lamb; it was the first time I’ve ever had lamb and it was fabulous. Not quite your ambiance but the food was terrific. I think many times small local restaurants can be hidden gems. Not fancy but the food is amazing and cheaper than a 4 star Michelin restaurant.

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Originally posted by wrightd:
For that price and level of experience it obviously isn't a 5 star establishment

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Originally posted by BB61:
Not fancy but the food is amazing and cheaper than a 4 star Michelin restaurant.

Ok, here's where I'm going to be pedantic, and point out that restaurant Michelin stars only go up to a maximum of 3.

And there are only ~150 three star restaurants in the entire world, and only 16 in the US. (5 in NYC, 5 in the San Francisco Bay area, 2 in Los Angeles, 1 in San Diego, 2 in Chicago, and 1 in Virginia.)

Three stars means it's a world-class restaurant with exceptional food and service, worth taking a trip specifically just to visit it.

I want great food. A view is nice but ambience doesn’t make up for boring or average food. That’s typical tourist trap coasting on vibes.

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Originally posted by RogueJSK:

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Originally posted by wrightd:
For that price and level of experience it obviously isn't a 5 star establishment

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
Not fancy but the food is amazing and cheaper than a 4 star Michelin restaurant.

Ok, here's where I'm going to be pedantic, and point out that restaurant Michelin stars only go up to a maximum of 3.

And there are only ~150 three star restaurants in the entire world, and only 16 in the US. (5 in NYC, 5 in the San Francisco Bay area, 2 in Los Angeles, 1 in San Diego, 2 in Chicago, and 1 in Virginia.)

Three stars means it's a world-class restaurant with exceptional food and service, worth taking a trip specifically just to visit it.

Sure, the tire guide is up to three stars. The local paper or blogger or whatever might use a five star scale. And the local paper has to use a different scale because one star from the tire folks takes some doing and is great achievement while five stars from the local paper might not even garner a bib gourmand from Michelin.

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How often in your experience does the quality of the food correlate with the quality of dining experience itself, for sake of argument, more or less, for four star establishments ?

I've dined at a lot of Michelin-stared restaurants, and I can't remember a time where the location didn't deliver a satisfying meal and experience. Some places can get a bit too fastidious however they all met expectations. Where I do find many pricy meals that fall short are in resort destinations and affluent enclaves, where the restaurant charges high-prices and puts on the pretense of a fine dining experience but, the execution of the food itself fails to deliver. Around Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs, Scottsdale, Park City, Sun Valley etc ...no shortage of places to open up the wallet but, most of these places put their efforts into the interior and surroundings while the food is meehhh.

Every town is going to have a few places where you can splurge for that special occasion, sadly many are too far over their skis and end up trying too hard, the kitchen has just as many misses as hits and/or the location far outpaces what the restaurant is able to deliver.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: corsair,

To me, it all starts with the food. We enjoy higher end dining occasionally, but if the food is not phenomenal, everything else is just smoke and mirrors.

I am not a high roller. So my eatery experiences (Oh I love that word are not for hoity toity joints.
I have had excellent food and service at these places. (in no special order)
Rusty's Sports Grille in Tucson
Teresa's Mosaic Cafe also in Tucson
Star Pass Golf Club in Tucson
Don Juan Mexican in Eugene OR
My daughter's at Thanksgiving (not cheap when you consider the cost of raising a kid
And I am so gonna miss Mother's cooking.

I've traveled and lived in 152 countries, as a self proclaimed foodie, I've eaten at all kinds of places.

Food is only as good as the surrounding environment and people. Sure a slice of kobe beef in some foam broth and veggies is good...but:

My favorite memories of food are "street food":

Maryland blue crab: picking crabs all afternoon with friends, drinking Yuengling beer with some hush puppies.

Crayfish boils in Louisiana with my cajun navy folks.

Real Pho in Hanoi for 75 cents.

Freshly caught saltwater fish for sashimi with a bit of lemon, soy sauce and wasabi...heaven!

All the wonderful street food in Chang Mai, Thailand...spend $5/day and you over spent.

Noma Choma (grilled meat-pick one) in Kenya with ugali, kachumbari and a Tusker or White Cap

Lebanon: Going into the hill country and getting 20+ apps and then the main course is a whole roasted lamb...they kill you with good food and drink until it's dark and then the music breaks out...amazing.

So many other places that if you are lucky, you get invited to their homes and life and you, at the end of the day, look up at the stars and can only feel gratitude.

Here in the US, every time I get an invite to the South for BBQ, or the Southwest for real Mexican, Central Valley CA tri-tip cookout, PNW dungeness crab or elk bbq here in Montana...this is the best food...food eaten with fingers is the best.

When I go eat at a restaurant, I’ll pay for the food, the service, and the environment/ambience. But I not going to pay a premium for the name or the chef or the “experience.”

If I’m paying $250 for food that’s only okay, I’ll feel ripped off.

In terms of fine dining, my evaluation standard is calamari. You either cook calamari perfectly or bad; there’s no graduations. And I’ve had it perfect in only two places in the United States. The first was in a cafeteria in an office building complex in Virginia near D.C.. Melt in your mouth perfection. Italian proprietor. Everything else was great. The second, fortunately, is in a local restaurant run by a French chef and his wife. Perfect calamari. And what I especially like is that while you can tell his dishes are made by a European trained and world experienced chef, he also gives you ample food volume to feed you. Not like a single scallop placed on a dish dressed up pretty.

It’s been my experience that not a single restaurant I used to enjoy before Covid hit in March of 2020 has ever been the same since. There’s now this very detectable malaise in the entire American restaurant industry now all the way from fast food up to fine dining. Something changed. It’s like no one is really into it any longer from the service to the food and the prices way way up don’t help either.

I know I can’t be the only one to sense this.

As we get older our sense of taste wanes. It’s a natural progression of life.
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Regrettably, I have not had the pleasure of dining in a Starred restaurant. That said, I am compelled to suggest a restaurant on Mott Street in New York City: Hop Kee’s!

I have had Cantonese food around the world, including China, Panama, San Francisco etc., but Hop Kee is by far the best. I have sent many friends an, to a person, they have agreed!

Although all dishes are likely excellent, I recommend their Chinese Snails-served whole with shell-point filed to open the shell to the atmosphere - this allows the meat to be sucked out easily, along with the operculum (the thin shell covering the foot opening) which is cheerfully expectorated!

I hope that those of you who visit the City give the restaurant a try and record herein your opinion!

Oh, yes - cost effective!

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Originally posted by OKCGene:
As we get older our sense of taste wanes. It’s a natural progression of life.
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Nah. I still like BLTs

It’s like getting to the end of the Internet. I ask my wife all the time what’s left to do with food that hasn’t already been done.

When the world gets to the point of deep frying, Oreos and Twinkies, you’re pretty much at the end.

The most I have ever paid for my wife and I to eat is $125. For $250 I would expect the food to be great, not good but great. I would expect everything to be top notch. Maybe that is why I never go to those places, I would feel like I wasted my money.

I'm not a food connoisseur. I would rather eat at a hole in the wall than some fancy place that charges high prices for the dining experience. The only times I go to such restaurants is when I'm with my mother, who is one of those people who think paying more money means better food.

Having said all that, I did once go to a 1-star Michelin rated Japanese restaurant in San Francisco and left seriously pissed off, wondering how it had achieved that award. The meals ordered by myself and my girlfriend arrived separately, we had no refills on our non-alcoholic drinks, and were left alone until the check arrived. The food didn't taste any different or better than if we'd gone to any other good Japanese restaurants in the City.

$250 for two people , and no drinks ? WTFO ? I don't have to impress anybody and spending that kind of money on a meal is ridiculous. Next time , send that 250 to St. Jude's or the Shriners Children's Hospital and go get a sandwich at Subway .

We go out for fine dining perhaps for or five times a year and of those perhaps only two or three of them were truly memorable.

We were in Palm Beach during the high season last year and someone had recommended a little restaurant tucked away down an alley way. The waiter was the best we had ever encountered. He spent the summer working at a high end restaurant in Chicago and the winters in Palm Beach. He was friendly, extremely knowledgeable and suggested a fantastic wine. He was there when you wanted him but not when you didn’t.

Another great experience was in Asheville, NC which is quite a foodie town. We went to La Bodega by Curate. It was an event put on by the James Beard Foundation as the restaurant had just won an award from them. Food was a blend of exotic and familiar using only fresh, local ingredients coupled with different wines from a particular California vineyard. Very tasty.

If you are ever interested in finding a good place to eat in a new town you might want to look at which restaurants have received James Beard Awards…

https://www.jamesbeard.org/sto...nt-and-chef-nominees

If I want fine dining I go see my mother in law. She still cooks everything from scratch.