Why Isn't There an Urgent Investigation of FBI Failures?

March 02, 2018, 09:53 PM

BadDogPSD

I'm from the government send I'm here to kill you: The True Human Cost Of Government Negligence. By David T. Hardy

Discretionary Function Exception

Basically, if an action is or even could have been (though it was not) part of the governmental process, it’s protected. The “discretionary function exception” says, in effect, that the government can do any amount of harm to whomever it wants as long as it falls within an agency’s operational discretion. If they say they can do it, they can do it.

Have not read it yet, but will soon.

March 02, 2018, 10:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wrightd:
incompetence knows no bounds in govt organizations, including LE and Justice govt organizations. it's the peter principle combined with good old fashioned laziness and corruption at the highest levels. nothing new to see here move on.

My experience as well. An upside down pyramid organization with only a few worker bees and lots of managers that did nothing.

March 03, 2018, 08:03 AM

Scurvy

Here is the actual answer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...tle_Rock_v._Gonzales

The government/FBI/Police have no duty to act or protect. They can't be sued or held responsible for failures.

Here's a video of a lawyer explaining the case and the ramifications:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBocDT7eJ80

Here's another example:

https://nypost.com/2013/01/27/...-who-subdued-killer/

It is a pile of horse crap but that's the law. Scalia wrote the decision too.

All the more reason for people to carry and be prepared to defend themselves.

March 03, 2018, 08:30 AM

radioman

quote:
Originally posted by Scurvy:
Here is the actual answer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...tle_Rock_v._Gonzales

The government/FBI/Police have no duty to act or protect. They can't be sued or held responsible for failures.

Here's a video of a lawyer explaining the case and the ramifications:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBocDT7eJ80

Here's another example:

https://nypost.com/2013/01/27/...-who-subdued-killer/

It is a pile of horse crap but that's the law. Scalia wrote the decision too.

All the more reason for people to carry and be prepared to defend themselves.

As taxpayers, we pay the paychecks of the FBI. Although nobody in the government ever wants to hear it, they work for us and not the other way around. This point must be emphasized, and must never be forgotten.

So, As Taxpayers we expect a certain level of service from the agencies we pay for. When we don't get it, we rightfully expect that those who represent us in government make appropriate changes to government bodies that don't meet expectation, until we get the level of service that we are paying for.

quote:
The government/FBI/Police have no duty to act or protect. They can't be sued or held responsible for failures.

And there is nothing in the constitution saying we have to pay them for doing nothing either. Right now, it seems that some adjustments are necessary.

quote:
All the more reason for people to carry and be prepared to defend themselves

On this point, I agree 100%.

March 03, 2018, 10:01 AM

HCM

quote:
Originally posted by Cookster:
quote:
Originally posted by Bigboreshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
Going back decades in the biggest terror attacks and school/mass shooting stories, there have been massive failures involving the FBI, not to mention other law enforcement.
Why isn't there more of an uproar about the gross incompetence and negligence in these stories?
Regardless of where you fall on the gun control debate, these all could have easily been stopped before they happened and fixing this problem should be the quickest and easiest way to stop future attacks without controversial legislation.

Both World Trade Center attacks happened after similarly mis-handled information was overlooked, often after many tips were received and an investigation.
This isn't the exception, almost all the major events like this will show up in a quick search showing a pattern of gross incompetence.

The Tsarnaev brothers-Boston Marathon bombing. Russian intelligence, yes those guys, warned the FBI about them more than a year before.

https://www.reuters.com/articl...dUSBREA2P02Q20140326

The Pulse Nightclub, the FBI investigated Omar twice and decided he was no threat.

https://theintercept.com/2017/...rterrorism-failures/

And of course, the recent Florida high school shootings where the FBI, Broward County and others dropped the ball time after time.

https://theintercept.com/2017/...rterrorism-failures/

Even Republicans, the NRA and others haven't made this a priority. The talk all seems to be about AR's, not the FBI.

Didn't the FBI also have info on the San Bernadino terrorists as well?

That was Phillip Haney at the DHS. He was onto suspicious activity going on at some of the mosques in that area, but the Crimson Kenyan ordered him to shut the operation down and destroy all records.
__________

Philip Haney is full of shit.

March 03, 2018, 10:04 AM

HCM

quote:
Originally posted by Bigboreshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
Going back decades in the biggest terror attacks and school/mass shooting stories, there have been massive failures involving the FBI, not to mention other law enforcement.
Why isn't there more of an uproar about the gross incompetence and negligence in these stories?
Regardless of where you fall on the gun control debate, these all could have easily been stopped before they happened and fixing this problem should be the quickest and easiest way to stop future attacks without controversial legislation.

Both World Trade Center attacks happened after similarly mis-handled information was overlooked, often after many tips were received and an investigation.
This isn't the exception, almost all the major events like this will show up in a quick search showing a pattern of gross incompetence.

The Tsarnaev brothers-Boston Marathon bombing. Russian intelligence, yes those guys, warned the FBI about them more than a year before.

https://www.reuters.com/articl...dUSBREA2P02Q20140326

The Pulse Nightclub, the FBI investigated Omar twice and decided he was no threat.

https://theintercept.com/2017/...rterrorism-failures/

And of course, the recent Florida high school shootings where the FBI, Broward County and others dropped the ball time after time.

https://theintercept.com/2017/...rterrorism-failures/

Even Republicans, the NRA and others haven't made this a priority. The talk all seems to be about AR's, not the FBI.

Didn't the FBI also have info on the San Bernadino terrorists as well?

No, they did not. In fact the San Bernardino shooter and his Hispanic friend who bought the rifles for him were planning an attack a few years earlier and aborted because the FBI arrested several of their friends who were planning an unrelated attack.

March 03, 2018, 10:17 AM

HCM

quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
Going back decades in the biggest terror attacks and school/mass shooting stories, there have been massive failures involving the FBI, not to mention other law enforcement.
Why isn't there more of an uproar about the gross incompetence and negligence in these stories?
Regardless of where you fall on the gun control debate, these all could have easily been stopped before they happened and fixing this problem should be the quickest and easiest way to stop future attacks without controversial legislation.

Both World Trade Center attacks happened after similarly mis-handled information was overlooked, often after many tips were received and an investigation.
This isn't the exception, almost all the major events like this will show up in a quick search showing a pattern of gross incompetence.

The Tsarnaev brothers-Boston Marathon bombing. Russian intelligence, yes those guys, warned the FBI about them more than a year before.

https://www.reuters.com/articl...dUSBREA2P02Q20140326

The Pulse Nightclub, the FBI investigated Omar twice and decided he was no threat.

https://theintercept.com/2017/...rterrorism-failures/

And of course, the recent Florida high school shootings where the FBI, Broward County and others dropped the ball time after time.

https://theintercept.com/2017/...rterrorism-failures/

Even Republicans, the NRA and others haven't made this a priority. The talk all seems to be about AR's, not the FBI.

There were two relevant tips re: The Parkland shooter.

The YouTube comment was investigated as afar as possible given the comment was deleted, there was no IP info and the general lack of cooperation by Google/YouTube with LE.

The second tip, from a family member, was called into the FBI’s Public Access Line. The info was taken and then never passed on to the Miami Field Office.

Why it was not passed on IS the subject of a current investigation, whether you are aware of it or not.

That second tip was actionable intelligence and the FBI owns that failure the same way the Air Force and the DOD own the failure to enter the Sutherland springs shooter into NICS after his court martial.

Not to mention the multiple failures of the Broward County Sheriffs Office and the FL mental health system during the Parkland Shooter’s 39 contacts with local LE and his mental heath evaluation after his suicide attempt.

With regard to the pulse shooter, there is a difference between not having enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt someone is a threat and affirmatively deciding they “not a threat.”