Well my lady wants to go to the range and learn to shoot so we’re off to the indoor range this afternoon. There will be a couple of challenges to this over the teaching with the typical first time shooter. First off, teaching/coaching a significant other. Second, she’s right eye dominant and left handed. Then there’s the question of staying with traditional iron sights or working with a red dot.

I’ve already taught her the basics on how to shoot a bow and she did very well. The cross dominance was an issue, but and this really blew me away, she shot equally as well either right or left handed. I have Never seen that before. When my daughter first started in archery she had the problem of being right handed and left eye dominant. Her shooting left handed was an absolute unmitigated disaster so she had to train herself to become right eye dominant. My lady felt more comfortable shooting a bow right handed and that’s what we’ve progressed with.

I’ve taught new shooters before, and I’ve used a red dot on a .22 to help a couple of my archers overcome target panic. But I’ve never taught a new shooter on a red dot. It’s Alaska, my archers all grew up and were taught firearms from a very early age, so it wasn’t teaching a new discipline, it was teaching focusing on the target rather than their front sight. On one hand I’m worried about teaching too much the first time out with both irons and a red dot. On the other I’m thinking the red dot just might make it easier for a first time shooter.

.22’s are going to be the order of the day with my Smith 617 Mountain Gun and either my Browning Buckmark with irons or Ruger 22/45 with a red dot.

So what says the all knowing oracle of knowledge that is SigForum?

I'm no expert, for what it's worth, but I'd start with conventional sights, then transition to red dots.
Just in case, it would be good to be familiar with the options she'd be likely to need shooting with a gun that belonged to someone else.

If your plan is for her to use a red dot, start with the red dot.

Yes, it's easier for a beginner to learn with a dot.

And in my experience training police academy cadets and transitioning cops to optics, those that have little to no firearms experience take to red dots even faster than more experienced iron sight shooters.

Cross-eye dominance is something you can train through. (It's not a big deal, unless it hasn't been identified before and you're struggling through trying to teach them without realizing it.) Her options are to either learn to shoot with her right hand as primary or to adapt her grip/stance to align her right eye with the gun.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

adapt her grip/stance to align her right eye with the gun.

I too, am right handed, left eye dominant, and I find it very easy and natural to shoot a handgun. With my left foot somewhat forward and head tilted a bit to the left (like David Caruso), the sights line up nicely.

I still haven't figured out how to deal with the cross-dominance when trying to shoot a rifle.

Just put scotch tape over the left eye on her glasses, it will blur it and her eyes will make her right eye dominant while wearing the glasses.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
If your plan is for her to use a red dot, start with the red dot.

Yes, it's easier for a beginner to learn with a dot.

And in my experience training police academy cadets and transitioning cops to optics, those that have little to no firearms experience take to red dots even faster than more experienced iron sight shooters.

Cross-eye dominance is something you can train through. (It's not a big deal, unless it hasn't been identified before and you're struggling through trying to teach them without realizing it.) Her options are to either learn to shoot with her right hand as primary or to adapt her grip/stance to align her right eye with the gun.

This. When shooting irons, one learns to focus on the front sight. This requires switching one’s focus to the target when using a dot and just floating the dot over the target while focusing on the target. Easier to just learn that way first.

I do think there is value in learning to shoot irons, but if you’re going to end up with a dot, start there and do irons later as an add on exercise.

One consideration is the age of your lady’s eyes. I learned on irons and am a fan of irons. However, as my eyes have grown older (I refuse to grow up), I find dots much easier as changing focus is *SLOW*, at least for me.

I'm with Rogue. Start her on the dot. It will be easier and more intuitive. Plus it's 2026...they're not going away.

Iron sights, then red dot.

My daughter struggled mightily with irons. Putting a red dot on the pistol was a godsend to her. Trying to get everything lined up wasn’t working. But, “put that red dot where you want the hole” took about 2 mags to sink in.

After she saw what she and that gun could do I took off the dot and let her figure it out.

Start with iron sights. Red dots and lasers lead to jerking the trigger, as the shooter is trying to make it fire "right now" when the dot is in the perfect place. This can occur with iron sights as well, and has to be taught to be avoided. But red dots and lasers make it tougher.

It really depends on the purpose of her learning to shoot.

If it’s for some form of recreation such as plinking, hunting, or something else when speed and the availability of a usable firearm in a critical situation aren’t really important, then an optical sight would probably make your task of teaching her easier. It’s far easier to say, “Put the red dot where you want the bullet to go,” than getting into all the issues associated with iron sight alignment and picture. For recreation, i.e., having fun, the disadvantages of an electrooptical sight don’t matter. In addition, the advantage of being able to aim more precisely for longer distance accuracy can be important.

On the other hand, if the most important goal is to develop the skills necessary for defensive purposes in most common situations that require it by a nonprofessional, then it’s important to be able to use a handgun fast and effectively at close ranges.

If it’s not necessary to put five shots into the head “A” zone from 15 yards to beat out the guy who’s breathing down our neck at the local IPSC match, an optical sight on a long-neglected gun that may have to be grabbed with little warning offers no practical advantage over irons and has potential disadvantages, not least the problem that’s mentioned time and again of fast target and reticle acquisition.

Of course, the immediate rejoinder to that complaint is about training and practice. And just as obviously that’s true: spend enough time and effort, it’s possible to become just as fast at engaging a man-sized target at 7 yards with an optic as it is with irons. The elephant that should not be ignored, though, is whether that need for practice will be satisfied in actuality rather than just good intentions. In my experience with the very vast majority of individuals who don’t carry guns for employment duty purposes—and the slightly-less-vast majority of individuals who do—that level of practice is unknown.

Optical sights on handguns that might need to be used for short distance defensive purposes with little time to do anything other grab, point, and shoot have other potential drawbacks, most commonly relating to the availability of the illuminated reticle the shooter has become dependent upon: it can’t be found by the out-of-practice shooter, there is a false reticle image due to the type of sight and lighting conditions, it can’t be seen through the sight due to some defect or blockage, or it’s simply not there at all. Again, “Oh, just learn to shoot using the sight at close distances without the reticle.” Sure: with enough time, effort, and ammunition to become proficient and accustomed to doing that and not just going into panic paralysis.

And if it’s just about a handgun, cross eye/hand dominance doesn’t matter. Just hold the gun so that the dominant eye can be used for aiming. That condition matters only when trying to use a long gun.

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
Iron sights, then red dot.

^^^ This.

Unless there’s zero chance that she’s ever going to use (hopefully not need) another handgun.

Start off with Red Dot off the gun, teach the “old school” iron sights.
Once she gets good with that, then toss on the Red Dot.


(Let’s say she has to use one of your guns in the middle of the night. Do they all have a dot on them?)

I would suggest you have her get lessons from somebody else. A female instructor if possible.
Friction often pops up when a man trys to teach his wife or girlfriend how to shoot.
Seen it too many times.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
Start with iron sights. Red dots and lasers lead to jerking the trigger, as the shooter is trying to make it fire "right now" when the dot is in the perfect place. This can occur with iron sights as well, and has to be taught to be avoided. But red dots and lasers make it tougher.

Interestingly, my experience has been very different. I learned on irons, then learned the dot. One of the biggest advantages for me is the diagnostics I get with the dot: nice clean lift as the shot breaks? Great! Whee, the dot went zinging off sideways? Hmmmm, more trigger control is definitely in order. If I shank a shot with a read dot, I can’t help but see what I did. It is not always so easy to see with irons.

I am a former Master bullseye shooter, and Distinguished Pistol Shot (earned before CMP softened the ammo and gun rules). Also was in training long ago with Olympic trials in my plans. I was mentored by the best. I believe a person will learn more about aligned sights and follow through using irons.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
Start with iron sights. Red dots and lasers lead to jerking the trigger, as the shooter is trying to make it fire "right now" when the dot is in the perfect place. This can occur with iron sights as well, and has to be taught to be avoided. But red dots and lasers make it tougher.

I disagree with this. Trying to "trap" a sight picture might be a thing initially, but the amount of visual feedback that the shooter gets with a red dot is substantial and, in my experience, allows them to sort things out much faster.

Brantley Merriam (national level GM) says something like "iron sights whisper, the dot hollers."

The sooner that the shooter can tie cause and effect together, the sooner they can fix the problem.

After Action Report:

Things went very well tonight; we both had fun shooting, lessons learned for both of us, unintended lessons of malfunction clearing due to a bad batch of Winchester Wildcat bulk .22LR ammo, great burgers and beers afterwards and probably the most important - help my lady who has never shot a gun in her life transform her fear of them into a healthy respect for them and a desire to go shooting again.

Kind of took the approach of throwing a lot of spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. Originally had just planned to keep it and basic with iron sights on a .22 auto and revolver. But in talking with Shaun before we went to the range I learned that her glasses are actually trifocals. I started to think that making transitions in distance in focusing her vision from target to front sight might be difficult. That led me to think that focusing on the target and superimposing the red dot over it may be easier.

Guns shot at the range tonight in order:

Browning Buckmark with iron sights
Ruger 22/45 with Holosun 407 red dot and then Q El Camino Supressor
Smith & Wesson 617 Mountain Gun, .22LR DA revolver
Dan Wesson PM-9, all steel Government sized 1911 in 9mm
Shadow Systems MR920 (Glock 19 clone) with Sig Romeo enclosed red dot
Shadow Systems DR920 (Glock 17 clone) with irons

Original plan was to just take the Browning and the Smith, focus on basics and iron sights. But after our conversation about her vision and corrective lenses I thought the red dot experiment may be worthwhile. As a follow on to that conversation; Shaun who is a linguist and fluent in Russian and typically has no problem in expressing herself was having a hard time answering questions that I had for her in only not understanding my vocabulary when it comes to guns but was having problems relating to firearms because she had simply never shot a gun. It was at that point I thought that giving her a little experience with several different firearms may be more worthwhile. She might find one she really likes and can work on finer points with that firearm in a future range session. Whereas limiting to just one or two, she may not like it and not want to go again.

Shooting went really well. I think part of it is that I’ve worked with her on the basics of shooting a bow and a lot of the fundamentals and safety rules carryover to firearms. The only downside to the night was a lot of misfires including a hang fire of the Winchester Wildcat bulk ammo in both the Browning and the Ruger. After the hang fire in the Ruger, I screwed on the suppressor and we started shooting CCI Suppressor ammo through it since that has been 100% functional in the Ruger for me. We were both giggling while shooting it suppressed, the sound of the fired casings bouncing off the wall next to us was louder than the muzzle report from the pistol. She kept exclaiming while shooting it suppressed, “This doesn’t feel real!” Then I got the confirmation, “You know, when you told you got this thing I really didn’t understand why you wanted one much less needed one. But now I understand, IT’S JUST FUN! Next time the Northern Lights come out, can we use it to disable the street lights in the neighborhood?”

God I love this woman!

Tonight also made me think a suppressor may be an effective tool to use in introducing a new shooter. I admit being new to suppressors and late to the game, used to think they were exotic and a tool for advanced shooters. Now I’m starting to think they could help to overcome flinching from muzzle blast and be able to focus on basics.

Shooting the revolver got interesting. Explained the differences between double and single action, then shot to demonstrate single action and had her try. She did ok, 10 rounds all over the black, but centered and all in the black. Then I demonstrated shooting double action loaded it up for her to try and she surprised me. She looked at the gun on the bench, left it there with the cylinder open, pointed to the back door and motioned for me to follow. Now I’m wondering what went wrong. She takes her hearing protection off explaining she has questions and didn’t feel that we could have a detailed conversation due to the noise on the range. Now I’m really wondering what’s going on. She then says she noticed when I was shooting double action that the hammer came back and stopped before it fell forward. She asked if it was similar to single action but that I was using the trigger to cock the hammer. Shocked the hell out of me that she was watching that close, noticed, and then thought to ask the question. I learned how to shoot handguns on DA Smith & Wessons, I was taught to stage the trigger to the point I don’t even have to think about it anymore. So explained to her what staging was, how there’s two tactile clicks in the rearward motion of the hammer, to hold at the second click and then slowly squeeze through. I also explained it was an advanced technique, takes a lot of time to become proficient, and that it was controversial with a lot of shooters arguing that a steady pull all the way through the travel of the trigger is more effective than staging. I also encouraged her to try a steady pull rather than staging.

NOPE! We go back out to the range she picks up the Smith and immediately started staging the trigger. And when I say staging she’s pulling back and holding 3-5 seconds before squeezing through and dropping the hammer. Her stubbornness shows through but I’m actually kind of impressed she’s able to stage it for that long. The results were a group half the size of what she shot in single action, absolutely balls on centered vertically on the target but at the very left hand edge of the paper. Ok, don’t ask why she decided to do that, go with the flow ask how it felt, listen and then ask why she thinks it’s on the edge, she can’t articulate why. I explain the concept of isolating the trigger finger from the rest of the hand. Then I had her grip the gun like she was firing and she has both thumbs pointed forward like she did when shooting an auto loader. Had her dry fire and watched as her hands rotated left as she pulled through. Then I demonstrated a grip with interlocking the thumbs like Massad Ayoub used to teach for revolver shooting and how that stabilizes the wrists against rotation. She shoots again this group is the same size as the previous but now is midway between center and the edge. Love it when I can coach, demonstrate a method, explain why, and then have my student prove it to themselves.

She’s happy, sets down the revolver, looks at me and asks, “Did you bring anything bigger?”

God I love this woman!

Ok, bring out the Dan Wesson, it’s the softest shooting centerfire handgun I own. Load up 5 rounds, put it on safe, set it down on the bench for her. She picks it up fires off the first round and immediately yells,

“HOLY SHIT!”

Puts it on safe, sets it back down on the bench staring at it, I’m a little concerned as to what just happened and what’s going on in her head. She takes a step back turns around and says,

“That was fucking AWESOME!”

She hugs me, gives me a kiss turns around and rips off the remaining 4 rounds. She’s happy, she’s excited, retrieved the target and she’s got 5 rounds around the perimeter of the black. Not bad for her first time shooting something bigger than a .22. Then she asks, “Got anything else with a dot?”

Ok, get out the Shadow MR920. She fires off 5 rounds 2 in the X and three just to the right in the 9 ring. Now I’m impressed.

God I love this woman!

Ended up with the Shadow DR920. She shot 5 rounds perfectly centered right to left but a straight vertical string from the bottom to the top of the target. She then said she was starting to get some in her back and shoulders. I told her that was a good sign to stop. She was like, well, I’ll go sit in the lounge and you can shoot.

“NOPE! It’s Alaskan redneck date night, we grabbed the guns, we blew shit up, it’s time to go get a burger and a beer!”

With that we left for Palmer Ale House for a couple of Kenai burgers and a Midnight Sun Brewing Panty Peeler Belgian triple and a Turnagain Brewing Company MexiLager. Had a really great conversation over dinner asked her what her favorites were and she surprised me with the Shadow 920 and the Smith 617. When I asked her why she said she liked the Shadow because every time she pulled the trigger she felt like she knew where the round was going. I’m kind of impressed that she knows what a good shot feels like and has that predictabilty of where that shot is going based on feel. It took me years to develop that. She then said the Smith because she wants to master staging a trigger, stubborn one she is. I never would’ve thought those two polar opposites of handguns would be her favorites. I also never would’ve thought she’d drill the center out of the target with a 9mm her first time out.

Then there was the conversation about what comes next in shooting. We discussed getting a range session in with rifles and learning the basics there. She was then like, “I want to be able to shoot what you carry when we go out hiking and on photography trips.” Told her we can work up to that there’s a big difference in recoil between a 9mm loaded with target ammo compared to a 10mm or .44 Magnum loaded with bear loads. She understood. Told her the range we went to has ladies’ nights once a week if that was something she wanted to do, her answer was not just yet. Then told her there were a couple of female instructors in the area who teach all female beginner’s courses. Including one of my coworkers who teaches part time at Thunder Ranch in the summer. I explained to her while I may be an archery coach I am not a firearms instructor. What I learned was from my dad growing up, shooting on the Sheriff’s Department pistol team as an Explorer in junior high school and high school as well as shooting on the Army ROTC pistol team in college. That I am definitely old school, can shoot a revolver better than a Glock and really not up to speed on any of the current techniques being taught. Her answer kind of made my heart melt, “I’m new, I don’t know what all to do yet, you don’t talk down to me, you listen, and I’d like to keep working with you until I’m comfortable and maybe then I’ll go out and learn how to be Bonnie Badass.”

God I love this woman!

I know we’ve all seen a husband or a boyfriend try and teach their wives/girlfriends how to shoot and things go horribly wrong. What I’ve learned as a coach, a father, husband and boyfriend is to leave the emotional connection at home. On the range they’re a student, not a family member. Don’t yell, don’t belittle or talk down to, don’t bring up prior history, realize that women are fundamentally different than men. I realize a lot of us grew up holding the flashlight for our dads, that doesn’t work with women, they cry. Watch, observe and question before suggesting a correction, there may be a legit reason behind what they’re doing. Always explain the, “Why” behind the technique you’re instructing. Positive reinforcement, for every suggestion of correction, let them know at least one thing they’re doing right or improving. Tonight kind of reinforces that for me, expectations and assumptions can be dangerous, let things develop and go with the flow. If I had left the red dots at home, Shaun wouldn’t have shot the middle out of the target boosting her confidence and making it fun for her. Then there’s my personal coaching philosophy I’ve developed in archery,

“I am not here to help individuals become better archers, I am here to help my archers be able to think for themselves, analyze a situation, identify the problem and focus on a solution.”

I'm glad it went well, and I'm glad you took the 9mm with the dot. The confidence that built will likely keep her coming back, and the feedback the dot provides will also help her improve. Yes, shooting irons is an important skill, but the optic provides a ton of benefits for a beginner, especially one with less than perfect vision.

Rifles is going to be a whole other ballgame with her cross-eye dominance. My wife and youngest son both have that particular defect, and they both prefer to shoot off their non-dominant shoulder. I'd suggest taking something bolt or lever action when you do that, as the brass flying out of the ejection port of a semi-auto can be distracting at first (especially off the left shoulder) and it's nice to have an option along that doesn't do that while they get comfortable with the basics, and then once they have that down throw an AR into the mix.

Also, how did you manage to find a woman in Alaska who's never shot a gun before?

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I'm glad it went well, and I'm glad you took the 9mm with the dot. The confidence that built will likely keep her coming back, and the feedback the dot provides will also help her improve. Yes, shooting irons is an important skill, but the optic provides a ton of benefits for a beginner, especially one with less than perfect vision.

Rifles is going to be a whole other ballgame with her cross-eye dominance. My wife and youngest son both have that particular defect, and they both prefer to shoot off their non-dominant shoulder. I'd suggest taking something bolt or lever action when you do that, as the brass flying out of the ejection port of a semi-auto can be distracting at first (especially off the left shoulder) and it's nice to have an option along that doesn't do that while they get comfortable with the basics, and then once they have that down throw an AR into the mix.

Also, how did you manage to find a woman in Alaska who's never shot a gun before?

I’m not expecting any real difficulties with the cross dominance and rifles. She is right eye dominant and left handed. But she is pretty damn athletic. In archery we tried both right and left handed shooting. She was equally good at both which I have never seen before, but she felt more comfortable shooting right handed. With handguns tonight we started right handed and never even bothered trying left handed. I kind of expect the same with rifles, we’ll see. I’ve got bolt, semi and lever action .22’s some with irons, scopes and dots, there’s options to see what works. It’s moving up to center fires that I get a little worried. My softest shooting centerfire right now is a Ruger No. 1 in .25-06. I don’t think it is bad, but then I usually shoot a lightweight 7mm Mag.

As far as your last question, she grew up in a California ski town (she’s not totally perfect). There’s been some fun conversations. “I’ve kind of gotten used to it now, when I go to Fred Meyer and see someone who looks like Santa Claus packing a gun, I don’t even think twice about it, it’s normal.” And then there was, “When we go hiking and you’re packing a gun, if something happens to you and I don’t know how to use it, I don’t want to end up in a pile of blueberry and salmon scented bear shit.”

Thanks for the report; good news is always welcome.

It seems that the issue of eye/hand cross dominance and shooting used to get a lot more attention than it has in recent times. Once there was all the advice about forcing people to use their nondominant eye by covering the other or making them shoot from their nondominant side. As I mentioned, I consider the condition to be a total nonissue for handgun shooting, but what about long guns?

It obviously depends on the shooter, but I can’t help but wonder if the requirement in many rifle competitions these days such as NRL22 to shoot from one’s nondominant side as well as its being taught to tactical shooters has dispelled that bogey to a degree. I.e., to accomplish that, shooters who are not cross dominant must use their nondominant eyes for shooting. That’s what I did during certain patrol rifle training, and the only significant problem I had was being nearsighted in my nondominant eye and not wearing corrective lenses. (Cataract surgery mostly eliminated that problem, but I don’t teach nondominant side tactical shooting any longer anyway.)