The FAA recommends infants be in car seats in their own ticketed seat but the airlines allow the less safe sitting in lap. Why do airlines allow this? What's in it for them?

I considered they don't want to disrupt the flying as habit travel mode, and want to establish the habit for the little ones.

My daughter just flew with her 10 week old and was told by a stewardess she had to hold her baby during tale off and landing instead of him being in a much more secure papoose harnessed apparatus. That seems counter intuitive. Why must they be held?

What they get out of it is two parents buying tickets instead of staying home. We didn't fly much when our daughter was that age, but always bought her a seat. Safer and more comfortable for all concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
My daughter just flew with her 10 week old and was told by a stewardess she had to hold her baby during tale off and landing instead of him being in a much more secure papoose harnessed apparatus. That seems counter intuitive. Why must they be held?

It isn't about what is safe. It's about the airline having a fixed policy and not allowing employees to make exceptions because of a fear that an employee will make a bad decision and get the company sued for millions of dollars.

Just a guess: wondering if in the case of an emergency evacuation it would be more hazardous and time wasting to have to unbuckle and unstrap the little one from a carrier? For quick egress, holding in arms may be superior.

Again, just a guess based on first principles.

I'll be upfront, I don't know. With that out of the way, in a crash, I don't think an infant seat would be of much help, like Wile E. Coyote holding up a little parasol when a boulder is about to fall on him. In something like an emergency landing or the aircraft encountering severe turbulence, I would think an infant would be a lot safer in a seat.

Because they are luggage! A carry-on bag, as it were...

No it's not. Just like the guys posting about the Navy collision, you guys say stuff with ZERO knowledge and apparently no interest in research or just asking. That would be too hard apparently. Don't complain about stupid left wing memes if you spout bullshit as fact. Glass house and all.

The airlines don't set the policy on CRS systems. That is a fancy way (FAA) to say car seats and papooses and booster seats. The Federal govt through enforcement action MANDATES what devices are legal to use in planes. Not the airline. I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, NOT THE AIRLINE. I know you want to believe that that flight attendant is making up the rules as they go but they aren't.

Basically you can only use a couple FAA approved devices. Period. You have the worlds finest car seat? Well, if it doesn't have the FAA sticker saying it's approved for flight you can't use it. Think that is stupid? Of course it is, but your angst should be pointed at your govt which mandates and enforces the rules through fines and other enforcement vehicles.

Google FAA CRS rules and regulations. You can read the entire set of binding regulations for yourself. You can read exactly why the Feds don't authorize papooses btw.

You think it's stupid that you can't finish your Diet Coke in a plastic cup while landing? Thank the Feds. How stupid is it that you can't put your phone in the seat back in front of you during takeoff? Feds. Up until recently you couldn't use phone in airplane mode. Guess who? Feds.

The airlines would let you juggle your little precious during takeoff if you wanted. They only apply the rules as dictated to them.

The worst part of this whole discussion though is that if people were really concerned about safety and not their own personal comfort during flight, they would buy a ticket and use an approved car seat throughout the flight. People don't, almost universally don't buy a ticket for under two years of age. Why? Because saving money trumps safety. Harsh but true.

At least attempt to spout the truth before banging the tired drum of the airlines suck. Maybe they do but lots of your angst is actually to the FAA not the airlines. They don't make the rules they are just forced to work under them.

At least attempt to be factual in your rants or you are no better than those idiotic left wing memes.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pedropcola,

You brought up a good point.

In a crash, a no shit crash, that car seat won't do much good. (Neither will your 1950, not even legal in cars, lap belt.)

The reason you are belted and why your baby should be in a car seat is for turbulence. I know many people who think that is bullshit but those people are willfully stupid and ignorant.

You can be flying on a perfect clear day smooth as a babies bottom and hit clear air turbulence or wake turbulence that will put an unsecured person (or baby) on the overhead before you can react.

Fact, been there done that. Not fun.

Buy a seat, use a car seat (approved). That is the safest way to fly with your baby.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
No it's not. Just like the guys posting about the Navy collision, you guys say stuff with ZERO knowledge and apparently no interest in research or just asking. That would be too hard apparently. Don't complain about stupid left wing memes if you spout bullshit as fact. Glass house and all. ...

Ha ha. Yea, I hear you. It gets tiring though listening to people spout what they think is true vice actually being true.

Airline travel can suck. It ain't the China Clipper anymore.

Blaming the airlines for federal law though is like blaming highway speed limits on Ford and GM. It is stupid and non factual.

Sorry for my rant. I've had some coffee now so I'm better. Lol

Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.

quote:

Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.

Yes. That made me laugh. SigForum though is a couple of steps up from asking random strangers at the bus stop. It is fun when you see someone who is truly an expert in the field step up and set the rest of us straight.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
Because they are luggage! A carry-on bag, as it were...

Then they should be in the overhead bins.

quote:

Originally posted by zoom6zoom:

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
Because they are luggage! A carry-on bag, as it were...

Then they should be in the overhead bins.

Where you can't hear them screaming.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:

quote:

Originally posted by zoom6zoom:
Then they should be in the overhead bins.

Where you can't hear them screaming.

Supposedly, Aeroflot used to have sound-proof crying drawers for babies.

From the horses mouth or possibly the other end:

Federal Aviation Regulations

§ 121.311 Seats, safety belts, and shoulder
harnesses.
(a) No person may operate an airplane
unless there are available during
the takeoff, en route flight, and landing—

(1) An approved seat or berth for each
person on board the airplane who has
reached his second birthday; and
(2) An approved safety belt for separate
use by each person on board the
airplane who has reached his second
birthday, except that two persons occupying
a berth may share one approved
safety belt and two persons occupying
a multiple lounge or divan seat may
share one approved safety belt during
en route flight only.
(b) Except as provided in this paragraph,
each person on board an airplane
operated under this part shall occupy
an approved seat or berth with a
separate safety belt properly secured
about him or her during movement on
the surface, takeoff, and landing. A
safety belt provided for the occupant of
a seat may not be used by more than
one person who has reached his or her
second birthday. Notwithstanding the
preceding requirements, a child may:
(1) Be held by an adult who is occupying
an approved seat or berth, provided
the child has not reached his or
her second birthday and the child does
not occupy or use any restraining device;

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.

Yes. That made me laugh. SigForum though is a couple of steps up from asking random strangers at the bus stop. It is fun when you see someone who is truly an expert in the field step up and set the rest of us straight.

Are you just realizing this?? It's the internet. You have no real way of knowing if a poster is an expert, a poser (we've outed those before...) or just a well-meaning moron. Just enjoy the ride and take everything you read as entertainment. Regardless - someone's missive is just there opinion anyway as The Dude would say. With the exception of Para - it's his Casa...

There is also an 'ignore' button if there is someone in particular you find perpetually annoying.

------------------------------------------

FWIW... when travelling years ago with an officially FAA approved child seat WITH the brightly colored FAA sticker prominently displayed on it flight attendants on 3 of 4 legs of the trip did absolutely make up their own rules about where and how it had to be, and one in particular argued and argued that it was not FAA approved even when shown the sticker, so yes, experiences do vary.

This year, in one of the 10 legs I've flown first class I had a FA go around before take off and take away everyone's water bottles and the drinks that the other FA had already prepared and distributed because "it is FAA policy." She then re-prepared the drinks after take off and brought them around. I told her that I didn't order another drink...

In spite of FAA rules, airline rules, flight attendants make up stuff all the time.

Anyone else having PTSD-like flashbacks to the United 'ovebooking' fiasco?

-an admittedly well-meaning moron at the bus stop

$$$$, that's why.