SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Southwest Airlines plane's engine explodes; passenger 'partially sucked out' of window
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
It sounds like the woman has in fact died. That's terrible. I take back my "sensationalistic reporting" comment. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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How do you know that a speed reduction wasn't made until 5,000?
What about this event required higher than 250 KIAS?
It's a Part 25 aircraft; no extra altitude or speed is required. Fly normally. The aircraft flies on one or two engines without difficulty. The ability to fly is not in question, and additional altitude isn't necessary. Two engines are for performance, not simply to stay aloft.
Why would one expedite? Yaw isn't an issue. That's what rudder trim is for. It's a turbojet airplane. It's flown wings level, trimmed, and normally. No need to "dump speed." Slow on schedule, and as one would normally do. Stable approach, as always.
A typical turbine is operating 35,000-40,000 rpm. During a catastrophic failure, it's not uncommon to be uncontained. The parts get hot; exceptionally hot, which changes properties. Earlier this year, an operator for whom I also work, had an uncontained failure on a turbine. I found engine pieces inside the cabin area, and have pictures of the window and fuselage where they penetrated. I helped remove the engine from the wing, and have pictures of the damage. It happens. Not often, but it happens. | |||
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And thru it all some Phuqstick still manages to FaceTube it for the world to see: “Marty Martinez, a passenger on the flight, posted a video on his personal Facebook page stating he was "recording his last moments." Martinez told CBS News there was "blood everywhere" on the aircraft. "We were probably going down for 10 to 15 minutes," Martinez said. "And of course everyone is freaking out, everyone is crying. It was the scariest experience."” "No matter where you go - there you are" | |||
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CFM-56 Engines are some of the safest and most reliable in the industry. A joint venture between GE and a gaggle of Europeans. There is protection from a blade out, but it isn't foolproof. The cowls on current gen engines like the GEN-X are designed to protect from a complete blade out condition. The nacelle doesn't necessarily have protection for the compressor or hot section parts from exiting. I'm very curious to find out what happened. | |||
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| Donate Blood, Save a Life!  |
Good Morning America is now reporting that one passenger is dead, but there are no additional details in the story about the death, whether it had to do with the passenger "partially sucked out," someone hit by debris, or someone who might have had a medical emergency like a heart attack. https://www.yahoo.com/gma/plan...news-topstories.html *** "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam (I will either find a way or make one)." -- Hannibal Barca | |||
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| Stop Talking, Start Doing |
I just read that a women apparently appeared to have suffered a heart attack on the flight amidst the chaos but it’s not known if it’s the same women that was partially sucked out of the window or not. _______________ Mind. Over. Matter. | |||
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| Donate Blood, Save a Life! |
Thanks. From the chaos that was reported on the plane, I had a feeling something like that might have been the case. *** "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam (I will either find a way or make one)." -- Hannibal Barca | |||
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I run trains! |
I noticed that every picture I've seen so far has shown folks with the oxygen mask covering their mouth only. Are folks so dumb these days to 1) Not at least passively listen to the safety briefing? and 2) Not realize that they breath through their nose? Maybe these are the "mouth-breathers" I hear about. Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view. Complacency sucks… | |||
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Lighten up and laugh |
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.c...port-live-streaming/ The woman who was partially sucked out died from injuries. She was cut pretty badly by shrapnel when the window shattered and probably was cut again by the glass when she was sucked out. | |||
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Uggg, I'm imagining being pushed through a cheese grater then, pulled back through.  Wonder if age (senior) was contributing factor? | |||
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Now in Florida |
That must have been an extremely terrifying event. As someone who is already not at all fond of flying, I don't even want to imagine what it was like in that cabin. | |||
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You didn't mention if you'd ever been in a catastrophic inflight failure or inflight emergency, nor not, but the response tends to narrow from fine motor skills and thinking, for many, to basic functions. The altitude of the photograph isn't specified, but if it's below 15,000, the masks aren't contributing much anyway and are unnecessary. If you look around you on the next flight, you'll note that 99% of the people don't look at the flight attendants or briefing cards during the briefing. This is stupid, but most people don't do it. In an emergency, what you'll be remembering is what you heard in the last little while, and being current on that briefing as of the flight departure is important. You also won't see people counting seats forward and backward so they can find the exit in a smoke filled cabin or underwater or in the dark. You'll also see people with their seat belts off, and shoes off (you'll want those shoes in an emergency when things are on fire, shredded metal is everywhere). Passengers don't think it will happen to them. Those masks are never actually demonstrated on the passengers, and the passengers have never tried them on. They're basically a rubber dixie cup with a plastic bag and a hose attached. Most passengers are unaware that the mask must be pulled far enough to pull a pin to open the valve to start oxygen flowing in that particular mask. There is no positive pressure in the mask. While it's supplying oxygen, at altitude the oxygen won't do any good because it's under pressure. They dont' seal against the face; the user is getting cabin air as well. At altitude, the chances of losing consciousness are high. Very high. Whether the mask is over the nose or the face, doesn't matter much; loss of consciousness with a rapid depressurization or loss of cabin pressure, the likelihood is high. When an opening in the cabin occurs, cabin pressure will be lost; there will be an exchange at the opening as higher internal differential pressure discharges into the free airstream's lower air pressure. The difference is a few PSI. Something as small as a window opening, however, will not cause a rapid cabin depressurization. It will cause a slow loss at best. The aircraft is continually pressurized by a constant flow of air tapped off the engine compressor sections ("bleed air"). Just as it's continually inlet to the cabin, there must be an outlet; valves that open and close called "outflow valves" are used to regulate that pressure, and the entire airflow of the cabin is changed every few minutes as it flows through. With a pressure loss, the outflow valves drive closed. The window is smaller than the outflow valves, and the cabin should maintain or possibly slowly decrease. Bottom line, in this case there's not much to worry about if someone doesn't cover their nose with the oxygen mask. Unless they're holding it tightly to their face, it doesn't form much of a seal anyway; they're getting cabin air, and if a depressurization has occurred, until they get below 15,000, they will only get partial pressure out of whatever they're breathing (diluted oxygen)...so it's really doing no good anyway. | |||
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A Delta MD-88 P&W engine lost it's fan blades on takeoff in 1996 at Pensacola. Blades sliced the cabin, penetrated the other side, killed two. I saw the plane later; it sat on the tarmac for weeks. Looked like a giant can opener was used. PNS 1996 | |||
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Web Clavin Extraordinaire |
Why would the plane divert to PHL? They were right near MDT in Harrisburg, according to the map TGS posted, before they turned to PHL. Why would they divert and fly 1/3rd of the way across the state when their is an airport probably within fewer than 20 min flying of the very direction they were going? ---------------------------- Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter" Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time. | |||
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better abilities ? at one airport than at the other? Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency. Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first | |||
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Actually, it was only about 20 minutes from the failure to landing. They had over 30K feet to lose, so PHL worked out pretty well for them. | |||
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Huh? That most certainly was a rapid decompression. Are you a professional pilot? | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
The reports are that the problem occurred at ~FL320, that the plane descended at 3,000 fpm. As you know the time of useful consciousness grows rapidly with descent. At FL320, it must be something like <5 minutes. At FL250, it is around 6-8 minutes, at FL180 a lot more, and by 15,000’, essentially indefinite, varying from individual to individual. When I had good lungs, I stayed conscious and functioning for 6-7 minutes at FL250 and might have gone a bit longer in the Hi Altitude course at Edwards AFB. I’ve not experienced it in a big plane, but in a Malibu, decompression is pretty quick, using the dump valve anyway, it gets really, really cold instantly, and the windows frost up. Very dramatic and disorienting if you are not trained. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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I am. Over 30 years. You? Why do you say it was a "rapid decompression?" There's a rapid depressurization, if that's what you're trying to say, but thus far there's no indiction of that. A failed passenger window does not cause a rapid depressurization.
There is no indication that a rapid depressurization occurred. There is no such thing as a "rapid decompression." Have you ever had a rapid or explosive depressurization in an aircraft before? I have. Have you ever taken an altitude chamber ride before and experienced hypoxia in varying stages? I have. TUC, or time of useful consciousness, is applicable to sudden exposure to a particular cabin pressure altitude, such as experienced in a rapid depressurization. It is not applicable here. TUC is 15 seconds at FL410 and increase marginally with a descent in altitude, depending on the physiology of the individual. I have had pressure loss in light airplane; not a Malibu, but I had a front windscreen blow out on a Cessna 421, causing a rapid pressure loss, sucking the head off a new hire, ripping the glareshield off the instrument panel and forcing it out the front of the aircraft, etc. I've also had door seals blow out requiring an emergency descent, and I've shut off bleed and pressurization at high flight levels in heavy aircraft, from a demonstration to leakdown tests following maintenance. Even a complete loss of bleed air does not cause a rapid depressurization. The failed window is SMALLER than the outflow valves. Think about that. A failed window does not cause a rapid depressurization. In fact, the outflow valves will still need to modulate to adjust cabin pressure, meaning outflow valves will need to open. A blown window is not a pressure dump. A pressure dump, which this was not, will not cause a rapid depressurization, either. The airplane descended at 3,000 fpm, you said; that's not a particularly high rate of descent, and not typical of an emergency descent. More typical of a normal descent, actually. | |||
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Yes, earlier in my life. I do still fly, but I don't get paid for it. And it is "rapid decompression". Much of your terminology and explanations are not right. I am sorry, but you either trained in Malaysia or you are not who you say you are.  This message has been edited. Last edited by: Top Gun Supply, | |||
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