I don't use FFLs that often but every now and then I think about buying something that would require an FFL and I am seeing less and less of them around my area. Three that I have used in the past are gone now and that seems to have happened pretty recently.

The Biden administration is on a mission to close as many FFLs as possible it seems. They are reportedly revoking licenses for minor clerical errors.

While there are still some fairly close to me, I can imagine how less and less FFLs can impact those living in more rural areas. Illinois has also made it very hard on FFLs and has greatly increased the cost of being an FFL. The small mom and pop gun stores have disappeared in this area.


Just wondering if others are seeing similar in their areas?

We’ve been through this before.

Do some research before believing whatever you hear on your YouTube feeds.

WAY more FFL licenses are approved than stores being shut down. Most likely the owners are not business savvy enough to survive or simply got too old/tired.

Research the numbers and come back.


Let’s take your text for example. Revoking licenses simply due to clerical errors. One, it’s called a Federal Firearms License, do you think previous administrations approved or ignored applications/paperwork with errors? AND, if they did would that be something positive? Goodness, just goodness.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OttoSig,

The FFL I have been going to for 40 years in Triune, TN lost his license for a clerical error. They sold firearms, saddles, trailers, & storage buildings. To find a decent FFL for shipping & consignment I now have to drive 30miles to Chapel HIll.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
We’ve been through this before.

Do some research before believing whatever you hear on your YouTube feeds.

WAY more FFL licenses are approved than stores being shut down. Most likely the owners are not business savvy enough to survive or simply got too old/tired.

Research the numbers and come back.


Let’s take your text for example. Revoking licenses simply due to clerical errors. One, it’s called a Federal Firearms License, do you think previous administrations approved applications with errors? AND, if they did would that be something positive? Goodness, just goodness.

You are only partially correct, I’ve been a home based FFL for over 13 years now. Yes, more licenses are approved than are taken away. But the ATF has not in the past shut down FFLs for minor clerical errors. They are doing that now and you can bet it’s due to the current admin. What is the extent? Who knows but some that have been revoked lately are abnormal from past practices. Every FFL makes mistakes, IOI’s (the ones doing audits), always find mistakes. I bought software to minimize mistakes yet I still find them.

FYI, although I’m home based I’m a member of a forum for FFLs so I keep up with what’s happening in the industry.

I’ll change my position when I see what “clerical error” really means here. Very subjective term.

Doubt it was a misspelled word. If it was missing records well then…

There isn’t an argument to be made here unfortunately.

Discussed back in August, https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...550048205#5550048205

I'm with James on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Anush:
The FFL I have been going to for 40 years in Triune, TN lost his license for a clerical error. They sold firearms, saddles, trailers, & storage buildings. To find a decent FFL for shipping & consignment I now have to drive 30miles to Chapel HIll.

I am familiar with the shop and the case that ultimately sacrificed their FFL. There is little doubt that they were targeted by the ATF with the purpose of shutting down their firearms business. I too, am driving to a new FFL in Chappel Hill after a nearly 20 year relationship with the shop in Triune. The only positive is the new shop is close by my range.

What I’m seeing more and more are smaller brick and mortar gunshops closing and going to a strictly online and shipping/receiving model. A local guy I’m friends with did just that, he said there’s no money in keeping a shop open like that anymore and all his money is in transfers now.

Also, keep in mind we are between panics and gun runs and things are relatively quiet. People aren’t lining up outside of gun shops to buy whatever they can get their hands on like we saw 2020-2021.

quote:

Originally posted by dking271:

quote:

Originally posted by Anush:
The FFL I have been going to for 40 years in Triune, TN lost his license for a clerical error. They sold firearms, saddles, trailers, & storage buildings. To find a decent FFL for shipping & consignment I now have to drive 30miles to Chapel HIll.

I am familiar with the shop and the case that ultimately sacrificed their FFL. There is little doubt that they were targeted by the ATF with the purpose of shutting down their firearms business. I too, am driving to a new FFL in Chappel Hill after a nearly 20 year relationship with the shop in Triune. The only positive is the new shop is close by my range.

I know the shop you're talking about. I'm sad to hear that they closed.

I hate YouTube as much as the next guy. Probably more because I can’t stand all the click bait “Breaking news” BS that gets posted.

But, a broken clock is right twice a day.

In early 2021, Biden’s DOJ put out “zero tolerance” guidelines for ATF IOI’s with narrow guidelines of what FFL violations were considered “willful”. They took discretion away from the IOI’s to bring FFLs to compliance, and demanded proceedings be started for revocation. Due to this “zero tolerance” policy, hundreds of FFLs have turned in their licenses because they can’t afford to fight it.

I know James Comer’s office and Rand Paul’s office are now involved. I’m hoping there will be hearings on this on Capitol Hill next year because the public needs to know. This is a back door attack on the Second Amendment.

Thanks for the replies. I am more interested in what one is seeing in their "local" area rather than number of FFL licenses issued who may or may not be currently "serving the general public". For instance Gun Broker and most firearm dealers with internet presence (Buds, Grabagun, Primary Arms, etc) have a list of FFLs that they work with searchable by zip code.

Just a few days ago I drove by another small FFL who had a small store front and noticed he was gone too.

It is particularly bad here in Illinois as FFLs have to be certified by Illinois State Police too. Link below. I don't know if any other states have such besides Illinois so far. Now that Illinois and many other states require private gun transfers go through an FFL, access to FFLs has been increasingly important.

https://isp.illinois.gov/foid/faq

"Signed into law on January 18, 2019, the Firearm Dealer Licensing Certification Act [430 ILCS 68] requires all Federal Firearms License (FFL) dealers engaged in the business of transferring firearms to have their FFL certified by the Illinois State Police (ISP). All FFLs who wish to continue doing business within the state of Illinois must be certified by the Illinois State Police by July 17, 2019, or have electronically submitted their application to the ISP by June 17, 2019, in accordance with Section 5-10 of the Act."

State laws will do even more. I had my FFL for 9 years, the last two during Biden's administration. I might have renewed it again except for our Governor going full on crazy with new rules for FFL's. I know a few guys that got out of it and a couple shops that wouldn't put up with the state's hand up their butt.

My FFL closed recently, I didn't push him on the reason.
Don't know if he just wanted to retire or if there was too much tyrannous scrutiny?

We’ve had several close in WA state because of the governor and his cohorts enacting so many restrictive gun laws
The last one that banned the sale of everything they call an assault weapon, and even the parts to “build” one(their words).
Several shops moved to Idaho.
My friend owns my main shop right up the street from me and he just took a trip to Idaho to look around.
He’s trying, and doesn’t want to go, but reality says he has to feed his family.
He has two employees, one came from aero precision when they cut back. We’re hearing they might bail out as well.
So I guess our shops are staying in business just getting the hell out of our commie state.

quote:

Originally posted by tomgun:
We’ve had several close in WA state because of the governor and his cohorts enacting so many restrictive gun laws
The last one that banned the sale of everything they call an assault weapon, and even the parts to “build” one(their words).
Several shops moved to Idaho.
My friend owns my main shop right up the street from me and he just took a trip to Idaho to look around.
He’s trying, and doesn’t want to go, but reality says he has to feed his family.
He has two employees, one came from aero precision when they cut back. We’re hearing they might bail out as well.
So I guess our shops are staying in business just getting the hell out of our commie state.

I think Washington law is almost identical to Illinois AWB as parts/attachments for "banned assault weapons" can not be sold anymore which were big sellers in gun stores. The law says that even just "attachments" need to be registered by the end of the year. So those of us that have a "banned weapon" that is grandfathered can not buy anything for them legally to modify OR repair. Word is they already have plans to ban the grandfathered weapons maybe even next year.

There is so much ambiguity in the Illinois AWB that many out of state firearms/parts dealers refuse to sell anything to Illinois and I am sure that was on purpose.

Even if the Illinois AWB is overturned, which I think is likely barring a change in Justices at SCOTUS, a whole lot of FFLs and gun stores will have already been driven out of business by it in the mean time.


https://isp.illinois.gov/Home/AssaultWeapons

Some banned "attachments".

Yes, the list provided below is intended to be illustrative and not exhaustive:

A pistol grip or thumbhole stock;
Any feature capable of functioning as a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
A folding, telescoping, thumbhole, or detachable stock, or a stock that is otherwise foldable or adjustable in a manner that operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability of, the weapon;
A flash suppressor;
A grenade launcher;
A shroud attached to the barrel or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel;
A threaded barrel; and
A buffer tube, arm brace, or other part that protrudes horizontally behind the pistol grip and is designed or redesigned to allow or facilitate a firearm to be fired from the shoulder.

You’re right Washington state is right there with Illinois.
We can’t buy a handgun with a threaded barrel , and of course we have the 10 round limit.
I’m retiring next June and my plan was to work part time in my friends gunstore, who knows at this point.
Here’s his shop if anyone needs anything he’s a good guy.

https://www.bradsguns.com/

I am no huge fan of the ATF, but I think this trend has less to do with tyranny and more to do with the cost of doing business, ANY retail business, with small margins.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
I’ll change my position when I see what “clerical error” really means here. Very subjective term.

Doubt it was a misspelled word. If it was missing records well then…

There isn’t an argument to be made here unfortunately.

Here you go. FYI IOI’s normally look over the previous years (as in one year price to the audit) 4473’s. They write up errors, let you correct some and it’s considered done. Going back in years past to find old errors is not common. Choose to believe your suspicions or what has occurred, it’s up to you. I don’t feel like digging for more but there is more out there. Could it be a fluke? Yep but it’s not likely it is. There’s been a change whether you want to accept it or not.



It’s easier to find when I actually post a link: Audit

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
I’ll change my position when I see what “clerical error” really means here. Very subjective term.

Doubt it was a misspelled word. If it was missing records well then…

There isn’t an argument to be made here unfortunately.

Here you go. FYI IOI’s normally look over the previous years (as in one year price to the audit) 4473’s. They write up errors, let you correct some and it’s considered done. Going back in years past to find old errors is not common. Choose to believe your suspicions or what has occurred, it’s up to you. I don’t feel like digging for more but there is more out there. Could it be a fluke? Yep but it’s not likely it is. There’s been a change whether you want to accept it or not.



It’s easier to find when I actually post a link: Audit

they also look at and do an inventory based on your bound book, you need to have every gun on hand in the bound book, and with the correct serial number,

if the caliber is wrong,, not a big deal, but that serial better match up,

and none missing or none not on the books,

https://www.youtube.com/live/D...?si=abVCPdHuW722gRYC
Matt Gaetz had a field hearing on this exact subject several months ago. As the hearing was only about 2 miles from me I attended. It is indeed an issue.

Hopefully I did the link properly.