Not only no, but hell no.

Conscription is the same as a prison sentence in that you are taking away one's freedom.

We have a strong DNA that tends towards “you can’t make me!”

That said, I can’t help but think that nearly everyone would benefit from having to get up early, tend to a cleaning station, eat what and when told, get haircuts, dress and groom to a standard, exhibit fixed manners and do what one is told, at some point during the transition from uncertain adolescence to adulthood.

The point isn’t to learn how to march with a wooden rifle, or stand a watch, but experience attention to detail under pressure, responsibility and the disadvantages of irresponsibility, working in a group and such like virtues.

It’s good for ya!

quote:

Originally posted by side_shot:
we should have something in place for youth offenders you go to jail or learn a trade help fix the crumbling infrastructure go in the military

My basic training unit had several people that had been given the “Jail or the Army.” they weren’t worth much.
We had two students tip over gravestones in a historical Cemetary. Caught, the court decided that they should pay for the damage and help staff repair the damage. They were worthless. Nothing was paid and as workers they were more trouble then they were worth. Then they turned 18. The court said something like “whoops.” They no longer had authority.
Point is we can spend thousands of dollars and resources on people that are marginal to begin with. The military especially, doesn’t need cannon fodder. Worse, when one of these marginal “jail or Army” types gets through an enlistment, they don’t have many job skills once they get out.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
JUST TO BE CLEAR...AGAIN...MILITARY IS NOT THE ONLY OPTION HERE.

Notice it’s the first listed. This is a common belief. That someone will “straighten up” with military discipline.

I was in the USMC from 1966-70. Marines were volunteers, but many in the Army were drafted. Even though they were drafted, those men served their country well.

Draft today? Absolutely not! There's no way I'd trust most of todays youth to push a wheel barrow, let alone depend on them to cover me in combat. The volunteer military we have now is working fine for now.

Slavery in any guise is evil.

WTF? Sorry Paul but this is one stupid fucking poll.

Okay, I guess we've established a pretty definite trend.

Clearly, it's a different world than I grew up in. Much more so than I realized.

I can't say I see that as a good thing. It seems to me that far too many people are happy to step right up and enjoy the benefits of living in the greatest country on the planet, and not nearly enough seem to feel any obligation as a result.

I think it best if I just leave it at that.

EDIT: Rereading the thread, it's not as clear as I'd initially thought. It does appear that the folks that are against the concept feel very strongly about it and frankly, I didn't expect that.

Also, even after two separate posts emphasizing that the main thrust of this was NOT military service, people insist on reading that into it. Poor wording on my part.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:
WTF? Sorry Paul but this is one stupid fucking poll.

Apparently. I must admit I'm mystified as to why tho. Perhaps you'd care to enlighten me.

No, but not because we're not Russia. I vote no, because the US military isn't sized or configured to deal with large numbers of partially trained soldiers. Today's military is looking for the educated and motivated, not the unlucky in the dragnet.

As an officer, I was happy to deal with volunteers, even with all the problems they had. Draftees would have been awful...

And I understand that the military isn't the only option, but honestly, I don't think that the government could usefully, productively and efficiently put that many young people to work. Besides which, I'm sure that there would be a level of indoctrination done that would not be conducive to conservative values.

quote:

. It seems to me that far too many people are happy to step right up and enjoy the benefits of living in the greatest country on the planet, and not nearly enough seem to feel any obligation as a result.

Oh I agree with that.
And I'll point out to those who say "Freedom!" That freedom without responsibility leads to sloth and layabout freeloaders. The modern welfare state is the breeding ground for socialist communists.

I do not favor the Draft. As a Marine 1964-1968 veteran of Viet-Nam , I firmly believe if there had been no Draft the war in Viet-Nam would have either been fought differently or not at all. That war was a waste of good people.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
Slavery in any guise is evil.

Including those who are incarcerated.

I understand we need to imprison some people, but turning them into cheap labor is wrong, because it's a form of slavery, and an additional punishment all its own. It's one glaring and horrible problem with the 13th Amendment, a clause no doubt added to appease the pro-slavery faction. Our government(s) should not enslave people, ever.

This thing, the very idea that is America, only works if we're actually free to choose. Hell, regular military contracts already toe the line of slavery as it is... what other job has the power to jail you for being insubordinate or fine you so much you're effectively a slave for free. Those conditions get a thin thin pass because of the stakes and because it's a choice.

But I don't trust any government enough to empower them with the capacity to enslave.

I voted no simply because of the financial implications. The governments, both state and federal, have already spent 13 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars per pupil to educate our youth. It is a joke to now assume another two years of doing something, whether that's military or park building, will suddenly produce good people.

If we need to straighten out our youth, let's do it in the 13 years we already have. Not by throwing additional billions of dollars at the problem. In fact, the cost is even higher when you factor in the opportunity cost of removing millions of people from the productive work force and placing them on the government payroll.

It sounds good on the surface, but scratch deeper and you start finding problems. People who are already motivated will volunteer on their own. Those who are not will be resentful at being forced into it and do a minimal amount of work at best, at worst do a shitty job or outright sabotage it. A perhaps unfortunate "side effect" of freedom is that, just like we have to permit speech we don't like, people have the right to be stupid and lazy if they want. We will just have to take comfort in the fact that (hopefully and eventually) "karma" will catch up to them.

I voted no.

I didn't respond to the poll.

In my opinion, as one goes through life their views on this type question are likely to change. When young(er), the answer is probably toward the "no" end of the scale. As one ages, it probably trends toward the "yes" end of the scale.

One of my regrets is that I didn't serve in some way. I would serve now we're it not for age limitations. At this point, I have realized that serving others or your country provides untold rewards. Then again, this is my opinion .

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:
WTF? Sorry Paul but this is one stupid fucking poll.

This ^^^^^ for sure!

This particular poll regarding mandatory national service can’t hold a candle to these other recent but, nevertheless, great and superior threads...

“Have you ever shot and killed another being”

Or

‘Cream of Wheat vs, Malt O Meal”

Oh, and I voted YES.

Seems to me our military is not lacking recruits.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Also, even after two separate posts emphasizing that the main thrust of this was NOT military service, people insist on reading that into it. Poor wording on my part.

I'm still against civil conscription as well as military - it'll be just another huge government fuckoff department wasting money because people can't parent their fucking children.

You can't force people to give a shit. Even with 'volunteer' recruits, there are plenty of shitbags who have a hard time doing what their told to do.