My wife and I live in a community with a HOA.
Every couple of years I get the letter about maintaining my lawn, it gets very thin during the dry season.

The main problem, I have a oak tree in my front yard that has grown large over the 25 years we have been here. Part of the problem, it blocks the sun and won't allow rain to get to the ground if it is not a heavy or long duration rain.
I do have a lawn irrigation system however we are only aloud to water twice a week.

Part of the solution, I just had the tree trimmed so now now it is time to either re seed or re sod. We also have a lawn irrigation system however we are only aloud to water twice a week.

I was told the ground may need some sort of fertilizer because the oak tree may have deplete it?

So as of now I am looking to put down a shade tolerant seed and cover it with top soil. While at Lows I notice a top soil made for grass with some sort of fertilizer in it but I am to sure if it would work.

Does anyone have any suggestions

Thanks

You need to use starter fertilizer when seeding.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Ou...N-5yc1vZbx6bZ1z1db7c

quote:

Does anyone have any suggestions

Yes. Let's start with the basics:

Do you know which type of grass you have (e.g. Berumuda, St. Augustine, Zoysia, or Centipede)? This is important as 3/4 you can seed, but St Augustine is sod only

The other reason grass type is important is when seeding fertilizing with starter fertilizer is good, but for sod it's best to wait until sod needs 2nd mowing to use starter fertilizer. Here is a Florida based fertilizer company that I've purchased from. The owner has a YouTube channel called Lawn Care Nut and used to be an executive at True Green.

You have a warm season lawn and need to ignore nearly everything a Northerner with a cool season lawn says. Much fewer herbicides can be used safely on warm season lawns and HD/Lowes sell shit that will kill your lawn. St. Augustine is the worst and has even fewer herbicides that are safe compared to Bermuda or Zoysia.

the other reason to ignore nearly everything Northerners say for fertilizers is many parts of Florida have summer prohibitions on applying fertilizers with Nitrogen (N) or Phosphorus (P) to prevent red algae bloom from runoff. You can get fines for applying fertilizer at the wrong time of year.

Do you know how much water each sprinkler system zone puts out? The reason this is important is with your 2x per week watering restriction you need to be putting out at least 0.5" every time once it gets hot or dry (e.g. April tends to be dry in many parts of Florida). The cheapest way to find out how much water your sprinkler system puts out is to put an empty tuna can in the middle of a sprinkler zone, run the zone for 10 minutes, measure how deep the water is, and adjust duration to get 0.5" (e.g. if 10 minutes gets you 0.25" then you need to run 20 minutes for that zone).

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
You need to use starter fertilizer when seeding.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Ou...N-5yc1vZbx6bZ1z1db7c

Thanks for the information I have not been to Home Depot yet.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Does anyone have any suggestions

Yes. Let's start with the basics:

Do you know which type of grass you have (e.g. Berumuda, St. Augustine, Zoysia, or Centipede)? This is important as 3/4 you can seed, but St Augustine is sod only

It looks like we may go with Bahia seed. It is suppose to be drought resistant and shade tolerant I was told. This was what was put down when we bought the house 25 years ago and this is what has been used in the past.

The other reason grass type is important is when seeding fertilizing with starter fertilizer is good, but for sod it's best to wait until sod needs 2nd mowing to use starter fertilizer. Here is a Florida based fertilizer company that I've purchased from. The owner has a YouTube channel called Lawn Care Nut and used to be an executive at True Green.

We are goin to try seeding this year. If it does not take then I will have to have someone come in and sod because I am unable to do it. Last time I had sod I did it and we used Bahia and that was back in the spring of 2021.

You have a warm season lawn and need to ignore nearly everything a Northerner with a cool season lawn says. Much fewer herbicides can be used safely on warm season lawns and HD/Lowes sell shit that will kill your lawn. St. Augustine is the worst and has even fewer herbicides that are safe compared to Bermuda or Zoysia.

Since I will be using Bahia I hope we will not need herbicides in the beginning.

the other reason to ignore nearly everything Northerners say for fertilizers is many parts of Florida have summer prohibitions on applying fertilizers with Nitrogen (N) or Phosphorus (P) to prevent red algae bloom from runoff. You can get fines for applying fertilizer at the wrong time of year.

I did not know this. Hopefully we will be re seeding it in the next two weeks before summer starts.

Do you know how much water each sprinkler system zone puts out? The reason this is important is with your 2x per week watering restriction you need to be putting out at least 0.5" every time once it gets hot or dry (e.g. April tends to be dry in many parts of Florida). The cheapest way to find out how much water your sprinkler system puts out is to put an empty tuna can in the middle of a sprinkler zone, run the zone for 10 minutes, measure how deep the water is, and adjust duration to get 0.5" (e.g. if 10 minutes gets you 0.25" then you need to run 20 minutes for that zone).

I do not know the water volume the system puts out however I have heard of the tuna can test. The biggest problem we have in this area is everything is built on sand. As soon as the water goes through the layer of top soil its gone. I know in some areas it is a few inches deep and others non existent. Most people who put down sod just throw it on top of the sand and hope for the best.
I am hoping to put a good layer of top soil on top of what is already there and hope for the best. I did something similar last year and because we had a lot of rain the lawn looked good. Then when the dry season only being able to water twice a week it thinned out.


Thanks for the information it is very helpfull

quote:

Originally posted by 71 TRUCK:
... The biggest problem we have in this area is everything is built on sand. As soon as the water goes through the layer of top soil its gone. I know in some areas it is a few inches deep and others non existent.

The local talk radio lawn and garden guru for Houston has a memorable phrase for starting over on a lawn that applies to you, "kill it, till it, fill it." In other words, use glyphosphate to kill existing lawn, till in the dead lawn, and use a rake to level the soil.

quote:

Originally posted by 71 TRUCK:
I am hoping to put a good layer of top soil on top of what is already there and hope for the best. I did something similar last year and because we had a lot of rain the lawn looked good. Then when the dry season only being able to water twice a week it thinned out.

Even better would be to use compost as it has more organic matter than top soil. Sand is nearly devoid of organic matter so it doesn't hold water or nutrients. To make the "kill it, till it, fill it" even better would be to either:

{Very Good} use glyphosphate to kill existing lawn, apply a layer of compost, till in compost and the dead lawn, use a rake to level the soil, and seed.

{Great} use glyphosphate to kill existing lawn; apply a layer of compost; broadcast a bag of humichar (biochar and humic acid combined); till in compost, biochar, and the dead lawn; use a rake to level the soil; and seed.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

Do NOT use any of the 'weed and feed' varieties that have a built in 'pre-emergent' weed preventer. That will work against the grass seed germinating and growing.

I just had to redo most of my front yard. I did sod. Fertilizer I use the weed and feed this time of year. Lasko blue bag.

quote:

Originally posted by 71 TRUCK:
My wife and I live in a community with a HOA.
Every couple of years I get the letter about maintaining my lawn, it gets very thin during the dry season.

The main problem, I have a oak tree in my front yard that has grown large over the 25 years we have been here. Part of the problem, it blocks the sun and won't allow rain to get to the ground if it is not a heavy or long duration rain.
I do have a lawn irrigation system however we are only aloud to water twice a week.

Part of the solution, I just had the tree trimmed so now now it is time to either re seed or re sod. We also have a lawn irrigation system however we are only aloud to water twice a week.

I was told the ground may need some sort of fertilizer because the oak tree may have deplete it?

So as of now I am looking to put down a shade tolerant seed and cover it with top soil. While at Lows I notice a top soil made for grass with some sort of fertilizer in it but I am to sure if it would work.

Does anyone have any suggestions

Thanks

I had the exact same issue in our front lawn, 30 year old Florida Live Oak and dead lawn under it, difficulty
maintaining a nice grass area under the tree.

Is it a Live Oak? these trees are famous for root sprout or suckers coming up in the lawn.
Live Oaks create an umbrella of roots that run shallow round the tree and make it difficult to
grow grass.

My solution, take out the Oak, there is really no other good way of fixing the problem,
you'll live with bare spots and root shoots as long as you have a live Oak there.

Now to green it up.....

If you want to put grass there then put down a layer of top soil, and blend in a new
grass fertilizer the most used in CFL is Ferti.lome New Lawn Starter you can get it at any
nursery, sod store, Ace... Link

Under the tree you have to put down Seville (shade tolerant) St Augustine type grass, the nice thing about Seville is
that besides being shade tolerant it has wider blades and is thicker. This will be sod, and shop around to find a really
good sod company, I've found Lukas Nursery, which is part of the Duda Family to have the best sod, they take delivery on Thursdays
and I get my sod on that day, before the pallets have sat, and also because by mid Saturday it's gone.

If you are close to a Duda supplied company find out the sod delivery dates and get your grass on that day.

Once you have the sod down, put down more Ferti.Lome and water it in good.

Make sure the irrigation has been checked, and how long it takes to get the proper water coverage
since you have a two day restriction, what I have found is if you need say 30 minutes to get to
the proper amount of water, then, run two 15 minute sessions, that gives the first water time to
penetrate, then you let the system go through the other zones before hitting it again.

You may get a year or two out of the area before the problems recur and you have to do this again
depending on the soils reaction, the tree coverage (shade) and any other factors. AFter chasing
my tail for several years to green up the area, we said screw it and took the tree out.

Once you get the sod going then use the local company Sunniland's Professional fertilizers and weed and feed products
which you can get at Lowes.

Link Sunniland

If you have a DIY lawn and pest store near you, get on their email list, they will sent you a notice on what needs to be put down and when. They sell the same stuff as Sunniland but much higher prices, but they also have other things you might need to use.

This the web of roots that run shallow being rolled up, that's about 1/3 of what we got out, when all of it was out and piled up it was over 8 ft high. That's my SIL running the Bobcat...



The Pile before the city came and picked it up, they charged me $75, a steal of a deal...

If you can afford it use Scotts. You get what you pay for.

quote:

My solution, take out the Oak, there is really no other good way of fixing the problem,
you'll live with bare spots and root shoots as long as you have a live Oak there.

Yeah... that tree is the natural enemy of a good lawn.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
If you can afford it use Scotts. You get what you pay for.

Scotts is good, however down here, Sunniland is a better solution, its made in Florida, for Florida lawns. They sell to contractors/lawn crews and bag the product for Lowes et al.

Link Sunniland

the local county extension office has information booths all year, they have grads from UF with them, and while they don't endorse publicly, speaking with them they all recommend Sunnilands products as the best product, and it's less expensive....


71 Truck, call your County Extension office and see when they are having a meet at a Lowes near you and go talk with the people, free, and good advice.


BTW for CFL, this month is fertilization month, last month was the time to put down a pesticide.

For April put down 24-0-11, Sunniland Pro Turf

Link

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

My solution, take out the Oak, there is really no other good way of fixing the problem,
you'll live with bare spots and root shoots as long as you have a live Oak there.

Yeah... that tree is the natural enemy of a good lawn.

There is a hybrid option. You expand the ring around the tree and plant with groundcover requiring low sunlight (e.g. mondo grass), and where the tree thins out you switch to the Bahia lawn.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
There is a hybrid option. You expand the ring around the tree and plant with groundcover requiring low sunlight (e.g. mondo grass), and where the tree thins out you switch to the Bahia lawn.

Yes, the ring around the tree is a good idea, however you will still have shoots coming up in that ground cover you have to contend with, we did that with Jasmine ground cover, problem is it grows slow, and the young tender leaves can be destroyed by a rabbit population, it was a fight for me.

Also you have to check with the HOA, it might not permit Bahia, or any other type grass.

Stop fighting it and just rock it.

Hoa makes you have it but either the hoa or the water supplier wont let you water it.

I have 5 large pecan trees and it’s a never ending battle keeping grass alive.
St Augustin does good here but needs water every other day with my sandy soil and summer heat.
At best I end up with a half and half yard.
StAugustine in the shade and Bermuda in the open.

I really like Bermuda as it just goes dormant when it dries out. Spit on it and its green again. Just wish it would grow in the shade.

thanks again everyone the information has bee very helpful.

Last year we used something my wife found. It is a blend of tall fescue and fine fescue. it is also mixed with fertilizer.

I think we might try this again because it did grow good till the fall/winter set in last year. Also having the tree just trimmed allowing more sun light and rain hit the ground it will hopefully work.
If all else fails I will just have a landscaper put Bahia down again like in the past.

Again thanks everyone

Lemme see if I can guess how this works...

HOA: This is your friendly reminder to keep you grass green in the hot n dry part of the year.

Owners: Grass needs more water.

HOA: Twice a week is all you get.

Owner: My 25-year old oak tree is also blocking the light.

HOA: Maybe trim it, but you need to request permission. dur

Owner: Okay. (submits request and receives permission)

Owner: Trimming still doesn't allow enough light. Grass needs more water.

HOA: You get two days a week.

Owner: that's not enough, I probably need to have the tree removed.

HOA: Not going to be allowed, the tree has been there for 25 years and has a right to stay there.

I used to be a slave to my lawn. Not any more. I use the time previously spent on lawn care for other things. I do not miss it. My lawn looks okay but won't win yard of the month.
Don't misunderstand I am not being critical of those who strive for an attractive lawn.

quote:

HOA: This is your friendly reminder to keep you grass green in the hot n dry part of the year.

Owners: Grass needs more water.

HOA: Twice a week is all you get.

Sorry to bust the HOA Hate, however

Water rules are from the county or regional water district and are state wide. City/County will enforce it, you can get fined as well...

https://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us...t-water-restrictions