This thread is not about pooing pooing the danger of Fentanyl. Everyone here already knows it is unquestionably dangerous. This thread is about the ludicrous narrative of Fentanyl overdose within seconds/minutes of skin contact. Even with specialized patch to deliver the drug through the skin, it takes almost 24 hours for the drug's effects to manifest themselves. As mentioned above, there have been zero toxicology reports on all these "overdoses". It would be so simple to prove or disprove these o/d allegations.

Ever since the scamdemic, I'm highly skeptical of whatever new stuff the medical establishment has to say, but, I'm not stupid enough to throw away established medical facts that have stood the test of time. I'm willing to take the Fentanyl bare hand contact challenge.

Reading this thread made me realize how little I knew there were so many doctors and medical professionals here.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmoid:
Reading this thread made me realize how little I knew there were so many doctors and medical professionals here.

At least two in this thread.

I've got 16 years in EMS. National Registry AEMT and Michigan EMS Instructor Coordinator.

Handled a bunch of opioid OD's, moved their stash and handed it off to PD and picked up and sharped(placed in my ambulance sharps container) their syringes. Michigan doesn't allow my license level to push narcs but handle fentanyl regularly in my bus with my medic partner.

No, it doesn't happen that way.

My volunteer unit was told to avoid offering Narcan to opioid overdose victims because (1)we don't know what to do when the victim recovers (2)fentanyl.

So, with evidence that it doesn't affect by touch, is there any concern that handling, dropping, and creating a "fog" of F particles does raise risk of OD?

For those of us not trained, who might touch it, the risk may be we then touch it to our nose or mouth.

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
My volunteer unit was told to avoid offering Narcan to opioid overdose victims because (1)we don't know what to do when the victim recovers (2)fentanyl.
So, with evidence that it doesn't affect by touch, is there any concern that handling, dropping, and creating a "fog" of F particles does raise risk of OD?

The bolded part is mind boggling to me.
I was a paramedic for 30 years and have treated God only knows how many ODs. Who freaking advised this??
Is it better to leave them not breathing? Are you being told to bag them, intubate and bag some more exposing yourself to whatever diseases a junky may have? Some narcan either IV or nasal seems a lot less troublesome.
You treat them just like any other patient!
If they’re blue, you wake them up with narcan and then tell them the opiate OD they had will last longer than the narcan and they will stop breathing AGAIN if they’re not monitored.

Is LSD more easily aerosolized? Wasn’t there a cop who was permanently disabled from a shaving cut, when shutting down an LSD lab in SF?

We were told that once awakened, they could be combative and we were not trained to handle the physicality of the interaction.

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
We were told that once awakened, they could be combative and we were not trained to handle the physicality of the interaction.

So they just want you to let them die??? Because they MIGHT be combative? That's pretty dumb. Yes, I've had a few that we've had to restrain, but the vast majority are just groggy argumentative assholes. I will say I've never once gotten a "thank you."

A couple local cops were given Narcan after "OD" on fentanyl they allegedly got on their hands. IIRC the Chief sent them to the hospital for bloodwork that came back clean except for the Narcan. The video showed them acting like they were having seizures

Sounds like a scam for a state funded early retirement pension.

^^^ Thanks the Chief for clearing that shit up.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:


So they just want you to let them die??? Because they MIGHT be combative? That's pretty dumb. Yes, "

I would have to know what kind of volunteer unit it is. Many auxiliary units are staffed by the elderly. I wouldn’t blame an older person not wanting to potentially getting into a fight. We sometimes do stupid things to help people. I have ribbons to prove it. But, I don’t blame people for knowing their limitations. Like a responder that can’t swim jumping into rushing water to save someone. You aren’t helping if you become part of the problem.

Fentanyl is killing dopers in a big way in this state. People on purpose using the drug or unknowing using it thinking the substance is "only" cocaine are playing Russian roulette. Mexicans are flooding the state with the dope. US should be using drones to take out the manufacturing facilities. If Mexico doesn't like that tough sh*t. Biden-Harris border policy is criminal in more ways than one.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I would have to know what kind of volunteer unit it is. Many auxiliary units are staffed by the elderly. I wouldn’t blame an older person not wanting to potentially getting into a fight. We sometimes do stupid things to help people. I have ribbons to prove it. But, I don’t blame people for knowing their limitations. Like a responder that can’t swim jumping into rushing water to save someone. You aren’t helping if you become part of the problem.

^ That's fair.

Around here they dispatch PD to any unresponsive, including ODs. EMS is based in the next town over, and fire is volunteer, so we're typically first on-scene. I don't think any of our fire or medics would delay rendering aid, though, outside of specific orders to stage before making the scene. I've had numerous times where they've jumped in to help with the fun when people get stupid, especially on night shift. I think they secretly enjoy it...just like the satisfaction I get from putting out fires before they can get there .

I teach this stuff and have for many years now.

There is not a single claim of LE overdosing on fentanyl from skin contact that has been confirmed.

It is all horseshit, brought to you by a bulletin put out by the DEA in 2016. They quietly walked it back a couple of years later, but not until every agency took it hook, line, and sinker.

This is well understood in the medical field by those that interact with it. But it just won’t go away. Completely horseshit.

Anybody have any experience how this impacts K9’s? I have been to 2 K9 first aid classes in the last couple of years and both spent some time on this but no one had actual experience with it.

quote:

Anybody have any experience how this impacts K9’s?

The last reporting I saw on police dog deaths indicated that toxin exposure and/or poisoning only accounted for roughly 1% of deaths.

Unlike their human counterparts, the number one cause of police dog deaths in the US is gun shots followed by heatstroke, getting hit by a car, or being involved in an accident.

One would think sniffing drugs would result in higher instances of drug overdosing, but I suppose the reason it's not very common is that they are rarely sniffing the drugs themselves. They're generally catching airborne scent vs. getting right up on it. Another reason likely has to do with the fact that dogs have a much higher tolerance to some of these things as humans do. I believe it takes much less of some of these things to screw up a person versus a dog.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Another reason likely has to do with the fact that dogs have a much higher tolerance to some of these things as humans do. I believe it takes much less of some of these things to screw up a person versus a dog.

Similarly, the therapeutic dosage of many non-illicit drugs is much higher in dogs than humans.

For example, I'm 260 pounds and take one Claritin a day for allergies.

My dog is 130 pounds - literally half my weight - and takes six Claritin a day for allergies.