Yes... everyone is lying about Fentanyl. It's fine, don't worry.

https://www.clickondetroit.com...y-touching-fentanyl/


No, you’re not going to overdose by accidentally touching a small amount of fentanyl, according to health experts.

There is a common misconception that if you touch fentanyl either by coming across a white powder or touching an object with fentanyl on it that you’ll overdose. Health experts are working to make it clear that this is not true.

“It is a common misconception that fentanyl can be absorbed through the skin, but it is not true for casual exposure. You can’t overdose on fentanyl by touching a doorknob or dollar bill. The one case in which fentanyl can be absorbed through the skin is with a special doctor-prescribed fentanyl skin patch, and even then, it takes hours of exposure,” said Daniel Colby, assistant professor and co-medical director for the Department of Emergency Medicine at UC Davis Health.

Alleged overdoses in first responders
In 2021, a video from a sheriff’s department in California claimed to show an officer overdosing from just touching fentanyl. The video was disputed by the Drug Policy Alliance.

“It is unconscionable and completely irresponsible for law enforcement organizations to continue fabricating false narratives around fentanyl. Content like this simply creates more fear and irrational panic that fuels further punitive responses to the overdose crisis, instead of the public health approach we need. We already know how this story goes, because we experienced it in the 80′s and 90′s with crack cocaine. Law enforcement-driven, media-perpetuated hysteria inevitably leads to extreme racially-biased enforcement and mandatory minimum sentencing,” the Drug Policy Alliance said in a statement.

The Drug Policy Alliance said that it is not possible to overdose on fentanyl through accidental skin contact or from close proximity. They also said that fentanyl does not “readily cross the skin barrier and do not aerosolize well.”

Researchers believe that the reactions in these cases could be panic attacks caused by anxiety, or a range of other conditions from dehydration to ischemic strokes.

Tell that load of shit to this officer…

Fentanyl can affect people differently. One person can have the same dose as another, and not suffer ill effects, while that equal dose is an OD situation for the other.

Those who are "apologists" and "defending" fentanyl and its affect on Americans, need to become piñatas.

Now, where did I leave that ball bat?

Yeah, NO!


“About DPA

The Drug Policy Alliance is the leading organization in the U.S. working to end the drug war, repair its harms, and build a non-punitive, equitable, and regulated drug market.”

That video in particular, I'm a bit skeptical of. While I've never been present for the start of an overdose, I've been around for the aftermath of (and recovery from) plenty, and her reaction isn't consistent with what I've seen. I'm not a doctor nor do I have any first-hand knowledge of her incident, but the explanation of a panic attack is entirely plausible to me.

Most of the OD victims I've encountered are completely out, like they're sleeping, and typically the body is trying to breathe, just not successfully doing so. You get gasping, raspy breaths or snoring, and zero interaction or cognitive response. Her reaction isn't like that, which makes me think it was quite possibly something else.

I'm still really careful dealing with dope. I won't touch anything without gloves, and I try to to let it blow around or get in the air. But IMO if the stuff was as volatile as some want us to believe, we'd have a lot more officer and EMS exposures than what we're seeing. We don't work in a clean room, and we don't have access to a whole lot of protective gear beyond gloves. I'll admit there have been times where I've gotten back in my car after dealing with evidence and wondered if I got exposed. You get a little panicky, your heart rate rises, you wonder if it's all in your head or if the wind blew some into the air and you accidentally inhaled a microscopic amount...and then you suck it up, go on about your day, and don't die of an overdose.

The media loves to push us all towards the worst case scenario, and I feel like some people just like to live in fear. Some lady yelled at my BIL a few weeks ago for picking up trash off the beach in Ft. Walton, because she said he didn't know where it came from and it might have fentanyl on it and he could OD and die. That's borderline crazy, IMO, but that lady really believed it.

I'm skeptical about most things, maybe even cynical, but I just can't buy that so many folks are making this up about contact dosing, but I'm keeping an open mind.

It really is a burden not to trust anything as factual.

While we're at it can we get everyone involved in speaking the word to read it as it's written, Fenta-NUHL, not Fenta-NALL. That would be great.

These are the same people that lied about Covid, monkeypox, and all the worthless pharmaceuticals being schlepped on tv

Collectively they have zero credibility

While we're at it...

It should be fairly straightforward to cite testing data to back this up.

Test data, let's see it.

I've been saying this for years, but there really is a simple solution.

It doesn't matter what somebody says. It doesn't matter what you see in a video.

Let's see the results of a blood test. Anybody have one of those to share?

quote:

Originally posted by Beancooker:
Tell that load of shit to this officer…

I'd be happy to. There is no way she suffered an overdose of fentanyl from casual contact with powdered form drug while wearing gloves. What you witnessed on that video was more than likely a conversion reaction or panic attack, not a narcotic overdose. She's more than happy to share this portion of the video, but will we see the whole video of her supposed contact with the substance, or her tox screen that the ER surely did on her?

I watched another video of an officer somewhere down south who had a similar episode after handling fentanyl in pill form, again with gloves on. No. It does not work that way. Fentanyl in powder/pill form will not be absorbed through the skin. Fentanyl in any form will not be absorbed through the skin without some form of carrier and most certainly not through nitrile gloves regardless of carrier.

Videos like this are simply sensationalism, or the officer's attempt at 15 minutes of fame or favor.

VINNYBASS, thank you for that bitch about the proper pronunciation. Been driving me crazy for years!

92fstech, we do have our share of idiots in Fort Walton.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
I've been saying this for years, but there really is a simple solution.

It doesn't matter what somebody says. It doesn't matter what you see in a video.

Let's see the results of a blood test. Anybody have one of those to share?

Methinks you'll be waiting a long, long time.

See this


HealthWatch
Is fentanyl dangerous to touch? Experts say no – here's why
healthwatch
By Kerry Breen

Edited By Allison Elyse Gualtieri

Updated on: November 10, 2023 / 8:11 PM EST / CBS News

Fentanyl, a strong opioid about 50 times more powerful than heroin, has become increasingly present in the U.S. drug supply and has caused a wave of overdose deaths among people who consume it or use drugs they didn't realize were tainted with the substance.

On Nov. 8, 2023, several county elections offices in Washington state were evacuated after they received envelopes containing suspicious powder — including two that field-tested positive for fentanyl — while workers were processing ballots from the election the day before. A senior U.S. official familiar with the investigation told CBS News that roughly a dozen letters were sent to addresses in California, Georgia, Nevada and Oregon as well as Washington state.

The substance found on an unspecified number of the letters — not all of them, just some — included traces of fentanyl, the official said, adding that the substance overall was described as "nonharmful." The substance was identified using preliminary field tests, not more rigorous lab tests at FBI facilities, the official said.

The FBI warned all people to exercise care in handling mail, especially from senders they don't recognize.

However, experts in the fields of toxicology and public health have told CBS News that just touching or being near fentanyl won't cause an overdose. Here's what to know about fentanyl contact overdoses.

Can you overdose by touching fentanyl?

Experts told CBS News that touching fentanyl powder will not cause an overdose. In powder form, the way it's almost always found in the illicit drug supply, the drug cannot absorb through the skin, said Ryan Marino, a medical toxicologist, emergency physician and addiction medicine specialist at the Cleveland Medical Center. Just being near the substance also won't cause an overdose.

"Fentanyl as a dry powder is not going to cross through your skin. It's the same reason you can touch sugar without your blood sugar going up," said Marino. "Solids don't cross through your skin."

Major medical groups have also issued statements about the risk — or lack thereof — from touching fentanyl. In 2017, the American College of Medical Toxicology and the American Academy of Clinical Toxicology issued a joint position statement stating that "incidental dermal absorption is unlikely to cause opioid toxicity." One video, created by harm reductionist Chad Sabora, shows Sabora holding fentanyl and not having any adverse effects as he tests the substance.

If you do get fentanyl powder on your skin, Dr. Andrew Stolbach, a toxicologist and emergency medicine physician at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland, said the treatment is simple: Just wash it off.

"If you see some powder on you, just wash it off, brush it off," said Stolbach. "After that, I wouldn't worry about it at all."

It's important to note that fentanyl found in the illicit drug supply is different from medical-grade fentanyl patches. These do adhere to the skin, but are formulated differently, are slow-releasing, and are primarily used in medical settings. Stolbach described the patches as "specially engineered medical devices" that "just barely delivers some clinically relevant amount of fentanyl." The patch includes fentanyl hydrochloride, a kind of salt that allows the medication in the patch to dissolve through the skin and enter the bloodstream.

"Even at peak absorption, if you covered both palms with fentanyl patches, it would take about 15 minutes to deliver just a standard dose," said Stolbach, who is also on the board of directors at the American College of Medical Toxicology. With powder fentanyl, "it's not fentanyl hydrochloride. It's not being held against your skin. It's just going to brush away when someone touches it. Everything's working against it. It's just a totally different scenario than the fentanyl patch."

Brandon del Pozo, a former police officer turned public health researcher who focuses on public health and substance use, compared it to a nicotine patch and a cigarette: "You can't just tape a cigarette to your arm instead of using a nicotine patch."

Can you overdose by ingesting or breathing in fentanyl?

Stolbach said that powder fentanyl can be absorbed by inhaling it, but it doesn't "spontaneously go up into the air," or volatilize, easily.

"Even if powder gets blown into the air, it quickly settles down," he said.

If you have fentanyl on your hands and then touch your eyes, nose or mouth, it could be possible to ingest the substance and bring it into your bloodstream, Marino and Stolbach said. To prevent accidentally ingesting fentanyl, Stolbach recommended taking reasonable precautions like "wearing gloves" and "washing powder off hands" if you come in contact with the substance.

"I always say that if fentanyl was so easily absorbed by other routes, why would people choose to use it by injection?" Stolbach said. "Why don't the dealers and transport people drop dead left and right from breathing or touching it?"

Where did the myth of fentanyl touch overdoses start?

It's hard to tell when exactly people started worrying about overdosing from touching fentanyl, but Dr. Jennifer Carroll, a medical anthropologist and research scientist who studies substance use and public health, told CBS News that fears grew after the Drug Enforcement Administration issued a news release and video warning law enforcement about the "dangers of handling fentanyl and its deadly consequences." In a news release from the Department of Justice, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein warned that "any fentanyl exposure can kill innocent law enforcement, first responders and the public." The press release and video have since been removed.

At the time, Carroll was a contractor at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the agency immediately began researching the claims made in the video, taking it "very seriously." However, Carroll said they sound found the claims "totally bogus."

Experts question video of deputy who purportedly "almost died" from substance said to be fentanyl.

"I'm deeply frustrated that this myth is still out there, like, just in general," Carroll said. "I'm very angry that we have people who are still encouraging officers to believe this, because I think that's just a horrible thing to do to someone, to make them believe that their life is genuinely in the balance, but it's absolutely not."

In most instances, it's police officers reporting these contact overdoses. Del Pozo said that fentanyl is not "cop kryptonite."

The DEA video was later taken down, and guidelines from the CDC and the position statements from the American College of Medical Toxicology and the American Academy of Clinical Toxicology aimed to set the record straight. However, the myth continues to circulate.

Sheila Vakharia, the deputy director of the department of research and academic engagement at the Drug Policy Alliance, said that there are several reasons why the myth of contact overdoses continues to circulate. Partly, it's because fentanyl is a dangerous drug and people have limited information on how it works. It's also because the people spreading the myth are "people without the appropriate medical training" who are sharing what Vakharia called "well-intentioned" but incorrect information.

Why do people who touch fentanyl have symptoms?

In many cases where touch fentanyl overdoses are reported, the people who believe they are overdosing do report symptoms. A video of a San Diego deputy passing out after he was told the drugs he was seizing were "super dangerous" went viral in 2021. The deputy also reported gasping for air. In 2022, a Kentucky woman said she started feeling her arms tingle and lost the ability to speak before passing out after picking up a dollar bill that she said was tainted with fentanyl. Officers did not test the bill. However, these symptoms and others reported in similar incidents aren't usually associated with opioid toxicity.

"I can say very definitively and confidently that these are not fentanyl overdoses. My best guess would be that these are an anxiety or fear reaction," said Marino. "The symptoms that are always reported are very consistent with that, and that makes sense ... If people tell you every day that if you encounter fentanyl, you could overdose just from being near it, you believe it so strongly that you will have real symptoms."

Del Pozo said that when first responders blame every sudden symptom on fentanyl, it can cause them to miss the signs of what's actually going on.

"One of my officers in Burlington fainted at the scene of a drug arrest, and he assumed — everybody assumed — it was fentanyl," said Del Pozo, who was the chief of police in Burlington, Vermont, at the time. "I did not put it in the news, I did not write a press release, because back then (in 2019), I did not think that was true, and it turns out, it wasn't. It was an unrelated health issue."

What does it mean when officials say a seizure of fentanyl is "enough to kill a million people"?

When officers announce a seizure of fentanyl, it's not unusual for the drug to be quantified as enough to kill a large number of people.

Experts scoffed at this way of measuring how much was found for two reasons. There's no set lethal dose for how much fentanyl is going to kill a person: People who use it regularly will have a much higher tolerance than people who have never taken an opiate. Quantifying fentanyl this way also makes it seem like just by existing, it's dangerous — but in its inert form, that's not the case. Someone would have to consume the fentanyl to make it have an impact, Vakharia said.

Multiple experts compared this phrasing to saying that a body of water holds enough water to drown a state's worth of people.

"When you say there's enough water in the ocean to kill everybody in the world 10 times ... what does that mean? To me, it doesn't seem like a helpful statistic," Stolbach said. "It seems like an intentionally alarmist statistic."

I recently read a statistics that said over 75000 people in the US OD and died of fentynyl in 2023 and of that group was someones father, mother, son, daughter or sibling so even if you can't absorb it through the skin it is a deadly drug that is killing thousands of Americans with the bulk of it crossing our southern border thanks to Biden/Harris open border policy.

quote:

Originally posted by calugo:
... so even if you can't absorb it through the skin it is a deadly drug that is killing thousands of Americans with the bulk of it crossing our southern border thanks to Biden/Harris open border policy.

No question about it.

"Fentanyl as a dry powder is not going to cross through your skin. It's the same reason you can touch sugar without your blood sugar going up," said Marino. "Solids don't cross through your skin."

dumb question but is fentanyl water soluble? what if you get some on skin and you're sweating? can that then be absorbed more readily? what blocks osmosis? size of molecule? level of charge? What if you have a cut or open sore?

I'm not going to stop wearing gloves when dealing with dope, if that's what you're asking. It may not go through skin as easily as they say, but there's no sense in being reckless about it, either. I'm honestly more concerned about some of it getting blown into the air and inhaling it, though. There's no question it has killed a lot of people.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I'm not going to stop wearing gloves when dealing with dope, if that's what you're asking. It may not go through skin as easily as they say, but there's no sense in being reckless about it, either. I'm honestly more concerned about some of it getting blown into the air and inhaling it, though. There's no question it has killed a lot of people.

Yes, I would think inhaled airborne powder would be the biggest risk.

That female had a total panic attack. It wasn’t fentanyl. Don’t you think it’s funny they never released the toxicology on her? They didn’t because there was no trace of fentanyl in her system. It’s funny how they never release toxicology when first responders “fall out” over fentanyl

I do think the thread title is a little inflammatory. I don't think the police are intentionally fabricating false narratives. Cops aren't doctors, or toxicology experts. Chiefs get sent these warnings from the feds or higher-level state agencies and pass it on. I've heard this warning at work multiple times, including at the academy, and I don't think anybody who's pushing it is doing so maliciously...they genuinely believe it's true.

As to the female in the video above, she may very well have thought she was overdosing. You get told enough times that even a teeny tiny exposure to a molecular amount of this stuff will kill you, and some people will panic to the point of triggering a physiological response. We can debate about whether those people should be cops, but that's another dicussion in itself.

There's no way to be sure what actually happened without a toxicology report, but there may never have been one. Lots of rural hospitals don't have the ability to test for everything, especially synthetics. I've seen plenty of lab screens come back inconclusive when it was otherwise clear that the person was on something...it was really common back when spice/K2 was big. The increasing prevalence of fentanyl has improved testing capabilities in recent years, but IIRC that video is a couple of years old.