quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
3 - Please keep the opinions and feedback to answers to my questions only.

Do you tell them at the beginning or let them pick up on your silence to their comments?

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:
It's now your job to read the 500+ page owner's manual cover to cover and retain 100% of the information contained therein.

Sadly, 325 pages of that is "Don't Do This" and Lawyerese warnings.

quote:

Originally posted by GaryBF:
But they can tell you everything you want to know about connectivity.

Yes they can, probably for most buyers the "infotainment system" is now what the engine, transmission, rear drive used to be.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
99.9% of everyone out there wouldn't even know what they are looking at under the hood of a modern vehicle anyway so I don't see it as a negative for the dealer.
What are you looking for anyway? IAC motor, MAP sensor?

I don't see it as a negative for the dealer either, just how what's important to the car buyer has changed over the last 40 years or so.

What I look for? What engine is in the car, location and accessibility of things like engine and transmission dipsticks (if it even has them), battery, air cleaner, the type of belts used, oil filter, spark plugs, etc. Also how neat and tidy things are, or aren't.

I’ve walked onto car lots where you were lucky if the salesman spoke English much less knew about the cars. I do everything online and by phone now but I wish dealers would just keep vehicles on a small lot for test drives and we could order a car in whatever configuration we wanted and it would be there within two weeks.

You guys have some shitty dealers. If the salesman can’t talk intelligently about the product I walk. I just bought a new car earlier this month. Audi guy didn’t know shit. Hyundai guys didn’t even come over to say anything. Subaru and Toyota guys knew their product top to bottom. Spent a bunch of time talking details. And connectivity. Lol. Ended up with Toyota but would have been happy with another Subaru.

quote:

Yes they can, probably for most buyers the "infotainment system" is now what the engine, transmission, rear drive used to be.

This is truth, heck even the new Harley Davidson baggers have moved in this direction, they call it the "Infotainment" system, the manual for it is thicker than the one for the whole motorcycle, they have several videos online to learn all the features available to you.

Not defending salesmen, but how many models do they sell? Are they supposed to know all the relevant data on each one? You're looking for a car. They're showing a couple of dozen.

What irritates me is when sales staff make shit up. When I was shopping for a bike, I had researched the particular model thoroughly. One dealer gave me info that conflicted with what I had learned, and when I pointed that out he continued to maintain his bad info. I went to another dealer, and the young salesman answered two questions with, "I don't know, but I can find out." I bought from him.

quote:

We purchased a new Toyota Highlander ... working the microphone for talking to passengers in the rear most seats.

Really? I'm going to have to look at my parent's 2018 Higlander and see if it has this. The couple of times I drove it, there was a weird acoustic ringing kind of like having the Mic turned up too much in church.

Back on topic:

What's there to look at? A bunch of plastic and crap shoe horned into the engine bay. Really, 6.7 liter motor with a turbo charger in my F350 and it doesn't look like anything. Neither does the 2.0 liter turbo charged motor in my Focus ST. I think the last car we has where the manufacturer spent some time making the engine bay look cool was our Honda S2000.

These days I get my fix by lifting the engine hatch on my boat. 8.2 liters of magnificent motor visible on three sides.

Car salesmen and real estate agents....I takee nearly everything they say with a grain of salt

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Yes they can, probably for most buyers the "infotainment system" is now what the engine, transmission, rear drive used to be.

This is truth, heck even the new Harley Davidson baggers have moved in this direction, they call it the "Infotainment" system, the manual for it is thicker than the one for the whole motorcycle, they have several videos online to learn all the features available to you.

BMW motorcycle's are in the same league: Electronic suspension adjustment, keyless ignition, hill holder, LED lights, ABS brakes, GPS, tire pressure monitor, Bluetooth, traction control, road/rain mode, etc.....

All this for a price tag near $30K.

Most younger buyers show up already having done a bunch of research....they already know what they want or have already narrowed things down and only want to test drive the vehicle. Couple that with (at least around here) what seems like high turnover at car dealerships I'm not surprised.

I feel like it's the same with other high ticket items - TVs, computers, appliances, etc....most buyers these days already have a pretty definitive idea of what they want...they just need someone to help them fill out the paperwork.

quote:

Originally posted by sakata8242:
Most younger buyers show up already having done a bunch of research....they already know what they want or have already narrowed things down and only want to test drive the vehicle. Couple that with (at least around here) what seems like high turnover at car dealerships I'm not surprised.

I feel like it's the same with other high ticket items - TVs, computers, appliances, etc....most buyers these days already have a pretty definitive idea of what they want...they just need someone to help them fill out the paperwork.

I believe you hit the nail on the head sakata.

The big service from the salesman/dealership is probably more to do with getting the potential buyer financed with a payment they can afford... trade in value many are upside down, the best interest they can obtain given the credit score, many around here at least don't seem to care how many years as they envision always making car payments.

My limited experience with car salesmen is that they're self-uninformed lazy bums about their own products, with the former salesman in-charge on the verge of a heart attack. I've also walked into showrooms and noone comes around, I don't get that, for all they know I'm ready to buy.

quote:

Originally posted by GWbiker:


BMW motorcycle's are in the same league: Electronic suspension adjustment, keyless ignition, hill holder, LED lights, ABS brakes, GPS, tire pressure monitor, Bluetooth, traction control, road/rain mode, etc.....

All this for a price tag near $30K.

I know. At least BMW offers the basic R9T series for well under $20K

Must be tough for those Honda salespeople.....having to learn 6-7 different models in all.

By the time I buy a car I know more about it than any salesperson I ever dealt with.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Car salesmen and real estate agents....I takee nearly everything they say with a grain of salt

Yep. They're basically just cashiers who happen to follow you around the store at this point.



The last car we bought was for my wife and luckily it was a brand new car so there was none of the used car "Well what about the carfax, and its got a scratch here so can you fix that" BS. She told me what she wanted so when we walked in and the sales person asked what we needed help with I said "We want a 2018 Honda Civic in this color and this trim, and I know you have one on your lot because I already found it, it's in the back right corner under the light post. What's the best price you can do on it today?"

The only thing easier was Carmax because their business model is to not haggle on the price. What you see is what you pay, plus the obvious taxes and reg fees. The only thing I had to deal with was a couple minor maintenance things that I noticed which they took care of. Other than that it was just paperwork.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Not defending salesmen, but how many models do they sell? Are they supposed to know all the relevant data on each one? You're looking for a car. They're showing a couple of dozen.

Nah. Most every mfr. has streamlined their models on offer. It’s just not like that anymore. And many times the trims from model are similar or the same.

The main issue (I talk to dealer folk ALL the time) is they don’t get paid what they used to get paid. So you have nothing but newbs in car sales. Turnover rate is extremely high due to low pay and long hours. Many of them work 12 hours a day 6 days a week. And you are dealing with the general public all day every day. There are knowledgeable people out there however. You get out of the concentrated areas (the city) and you’ll find knowledge, kindness and patience. The last car deal I did was a new limited production performance car and we did the entire deal on the phone and a handshake in person. I got exactly what I wanted, under invoice, and even got the keys and told to take it home “We’ll get the paperwork done tomorrow.” I was at the dealer long enough to test drive it and leave. Signing at my credit union took 5 minutes. Dealer was 1.5 hours away and he sent a porter to pick me up just in case I bought it.

Went to the toyota dealership a few years back and was asking about the differences in the sienna van packages based on year. Wasnt much of a salesperson, they had no clue. Went to the nissan dealership to look at a crew cab tacoma 4x4. They brought out a 2wd ext cab work tacoma that had been beat all to hell and they still wanted 15 grand.

Ended up buying my car private party and learned every detail from the prior owner.

Cant say im super suprised you can buy a car from a vending machine now.

Went into a local Toyota dealership, youngish sales man comes out, we talk a bit, he is the owners son, excuses him self says he will send somebody out. This old guy comes out, I figure we have been pawned off on the old guy, turns out he owns the dealership, great buying experience. None of I have to run this by somebody crap.