This is disturbing and more harrasment of gun owners. This video is saying that private citizens will no longer be able to ship handguns or any "concealable" firearm. The common carriers such have UPS and FEDEX have been bullied into complying with this by anti gun senators and not by a law change. So if one needs to ship their firearm to the manufacturer for service it will have to go through an FFL. What bullshit and this is also happening during a time when more and more FFLs are being forced out of business by state laws and rediculous harassment by the ATF looking for any minor mistake to revoke their license.

You can still ship through a common carrier. Their rules do constitute laws. You will be SOL in the event of a loss and insurance claim, but not breaking any laws.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
You can still ship through a common carrier. Their rules do constitute laws. You will be SOL in the event of a loss and insurance claim, but not breaking any laws.

This is new change by the common carriers. By law you are supposed to tell them you are shipping a handgun and they will refuse, at least for now.

Last I checked, ATF had a blurb on their site that it was a law to inform a common carrier the the contents are a gun. It was erroneous.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/q...-or-contract-carrier

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]


Last Reviewed January 30, 2020

The relevant part of that link:

"(e)It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm."

You can't ship to a non-FFL without notifying the carrier. Shipping to an FFL without notifying the carrier is perfectly fine.

I'm almost tempted to ship a handgun to a non-licensee in-state just to see what the "written notice" requirement is actually like. Has anybody jumped through that hoop yet?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

Shipping to an FFL without notifying the carrier is perfectly fine.

Yup. I shipped a handgun to a gunsmith who is an FFL holder, for some work to be done. He suggested that I ship it FedEx (or maybe it was UPS) at a lower cost service, second day air, and mark it "machine parts."

I asked if that was legal and he said it absolutely was, because it was being shipped to an FFL holder, so it did not have to be declared as a firearm, and there was no law requiring the more expensive overnight shipping. FedEx (or UPS) policy, but not law would have required overnight shipping if it had been declared as a firearm.

There is always the alternative of using an FFL's services to ship via Priority Mail; shipping costs are very reasonable, but the FFL fees can vary a lot.

I used my local FFL to ship a gun I sold on GB, but that was only because the item was kind of expensive and I wanted it to be insured. Had I gone with FedEx or UPS overnight, fully insured, it would have been very expensive.

In general I think people need to stop worrying so much about rules, or at least not consider them to be laws. I don't think I've ever seen a "no guns" sign in AZ that was properly displayed and thus had the force of law. And I don't care what special group of people a business reserves parking spaces for. The only of those protected by law are for handicapped. And I don't park there. Curbside pickup? I'm parking there and will stay as long as I want.

What if you use a service like Ship My Guns, which is a subsidiary of Buds Guns? Technically your using their FFL, so it is FFL to FFL. They used to provide a letter you could download to show the carrier that they had an agreement in place to allow a person to ship a firearm.

Could you not ship the firearm in 2 separate packages ??? The top slide, barrel, etc in one package, and the grip in another package. As being separate would it no longer be considered a firearm but just parts ??? God Bless

quote:

Originally posted by VBVAGUY:
Could you not ship the firearm in 2 separate packages ??? The top slide, barrel, etc in one package, and the grip in another package. As being separate would it no longer be considered a firearm but just parts ??? God Bless

You can break it down into 50 packages, but one of them (the serialized part) will ALWAYS be a “firearm”.

If I send a stripped AR lower or P320 FCU, it is a firearm by legal definition. You’ll note the absence of any term such as “complete and/or functioning” where these laws and/or rules discuss shipping firearms. What constitutes a “Firearm” has long been defined by ATF.

Exactly. The serialized receiver/frame is the "firearm". Anything else is parts. But even lacking any other parts, the receiver/frame is still a "firearm".

I wonder if this affects shipmygun.com

quote:

Originally posted by Snake207:
I wonder if this affects shipmygun.com

They're a FFL (Bud's Gun Shop), shipping to another FFL.

Same as taking your gun to your local gun store and paying them to print a shipping label using their UPS/FedEx account for you.

“Shipments containing Firearm Products are accepted for transportation only from shippers who are federally licensed and have an approved UPS agreement for the transportation of Firearm Products.”

UPS link

So no firearms or parts such as barrels, magazines, grips, springs, etc. through UPS unless you are licensed and have an agreement with UPS.

“Shippers with a Federal Firearm License

Only customers holding a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and federal, state, or local government agencies may ship firearms with FedEx. Customers holding an FFL must enter into an approved FedEx Firearms Shipping Compliance Agreement before shipping any firearms with FedEx. Also, you must be an approved firearm shipper with a signed contract on file with FedEx. For more information, contact your FedEx account executive.

Nonlicensee shippers

Nonlicensees are prohibited from shipping firearms with FedEx.”

FedEx link

FedEx seems to be silent on parts, but no firearms unless you are licensed and have an agreement with FedEx.

How onerous are these agreements with FedEx and UPS?

We need a few gun friendly states (TX, FL come to mind as they're big enough to move the needle, but others are more than welcome) to pass laws that common carriers that refuse to take gun shipments cannot do business in those states. The could neither accept shipments or make deliveries. We'd see what the shippers tune would be then.