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Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bean:
Actually, I am in search of a modern hammer pistol.

Criteria
1. 15/17 rounds
2. decent factory and aftermarket support
3. optic cut
4. readily available magazines and parts
5. fits my pudgy, small hands (320 small frame fits me now)
6. safely appendix carry, thumbing hammer during holstering is an absolute

All the latest and greatest are striker pistols.

Eliminated
1. CZ P07/P09 - the grip is a large 2x4, optic cut?
2. Beretta PX4 - no factory optics cut, fugly as hell, feels like it's also dying like the SP2022, no factory or aftermarket support.
3. Sig p229 - fat-ass grip.
4. HK P30 - no optics cut, close to my ideal...

Did I miss anything??


A Beretta 92X RDO might meet all your criteria. Just a plug for the PX4 because I think it's a great gun. While I have never looked in to the 'aftermarket' for it (no need) there is plenty of factory support. You can get 3 or 4 different safety levers, and every small part is available. Compared to some of the weird looking plastic guns around I think it looks pretty good. I had the slide on mine cut for an optic by LTT and because of the rotating barrel the dot is very easy to keep on target.

The 92X factory optics mount does put the optic quite high above the bore but in actual shooting I haven't found that it matters. Also, it's very easy to get a great trigger on a 92.
 
Posts: 3995 | Location: NC | Registered: December 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tirod:
Hard to argue men currently dominate the shooting sports. On the other hand, of the 16 million new to guns owners over the last few years, over 50% were reputedly women. Very few are going to forums for advice. Yet they are showing up at ranges and classes.

We have a changing ownership group whether we like it or not. And we have a lot of new shooters coming into the sport with a lot of old outdated and flat out wrong information - much the same as we did many years ago. We need to work on that, we see those issues.
Do not fucking lecture me, partner. Hear me? Don't you ever again lecture me in this forum.

I don't care whether or not you get my point.

"We need to work on that"? Just who in the fuck do you think you are? Some kind of Zen master with the keys to the gate of the monastery, assessing whether or not we're ready to make our way in this world that only you understand? You wanna "work on" something? Work on not coming across like Douchebag of the Year every time you post.

You pull this shit again with me and I'll boot you so far out of here, your great-grandchildren won't be able to get in.
quote:
Hard to argue men currently dominate the shooting sports.
No shit, Sherlock, and yet here you are, running your suck, trying to do precisely that. If you want to hear yourself talk, O Great God of Wisdom, go stand in your bathroom and talk to yourself in the mirror.
 
Posts: 98033 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Austin228
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bean:
Actually, I am in search of a modern hammer pistol.

Criteria
1. 15/17 rounds
2. decent factory and aftermarket support
3. optic cut
4. readily available magazines and parts
5. fits my pudgy, small hands (320 small frame fits me now)
6. safely appendix carry, thumbing hammer during holstering is an absolute

All the latest and greatest are striker pistols.

Eliminated
1. CZ P07/P09 - the grip is a large 2x4, optic cut?
2. Beretta PX4 - no factory optics cut, fugly as hell, feels like it's also dying like the SP2022, no factory or aftermarket support.
3. Sig p229 - fat-ass grip.
4. HK P30 - no optics cut, close to my ideal...

Did I miss anything??


P229 E2 grip is slimmer, but getting an extra optic ready slide would be expensive from SIG

Check out the Beretta 92X RDO (RDO=slide cut for optic).

92X RDO's can be bought for $600-$700 (online, be aware brick and mortar stores always charge way higher).

Beretta 92 is still the flagship gun of Beretta with 18 rounds flush fit and the availability of optic cut slides.

There is definitely a good amount of factory and aftermarket support for the 92/M9 series for you to get a better trigger pull, plenty of magazines, etc.

I don't see that drying up anytime soon unless Beretta comes out with some new product that takes over most of their sales next weekend.

You might also want to look at 92X RDO compact as it is a smaller gun and may be better for your small hands.

Compact 92X still holds 15 rounds in a Mec-Gar magazine.

I'd check gun.deals and www.wikiarms.com to find random places online with the best deals on whatever you might end up wanting.

Below is a search for current prices around the web for 92X RDO's , $600-700 basically

https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/92x%20rdo

One of the sites is selling 92X RDO for $599 + $15 shipping which is reasonable.
 
Posts: 1318 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: March 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
posted Hide Post
"Debris Ingress Ports: Strategic Hampering for Impaired Tolerances" holes are factory standard now. That's cool. Now you don't have to pay someone to cut them into your gun!


______________________________________________
I believe in the 25th amendment.
 
Posts: 14427 | Location: Seattle-ish | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not as lean, not as mean,
Still a Marine
Picture of Gibb
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by RoboV:
The catalog shows the SP2022 available but only in 9mm.

Weird. I must be blind. Can you point to which page it is on?


The 2022 is still listed in the "Pistol Specs" page on 220-221




I shall respect you until you open your mouth, from that point on, you must earn it yourself.
 
Posts: 3158 | Location: Southern Maine | Registered: February 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:


What's more- a 200+ page catalog. Roll Eyes



That does raise an eyebrow. Only someone in Marketing loves a 200 page catalog. Isn't there someone to reign them in. Nobody but nobody in the past 50 years in the business world has thought that having lots of models and variants is a winning strategy.

It's too bad. They just pissed the profits they got from the success of the P365 and its variants.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 17492 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Web Clavin Extraordinaire
Picture of Oat_Action_Man
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH:
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:


What's more- a 200+ page catalog. Roll Eyes



That does raise an eyebrow. Only someone in Marketing loves a 200 page catalog. Isn't there someone to reign them in. Nobody but nobody in the past 50 years in the business world has thought that having lots of models and variants is a winning strategy.

It's too bad. They just pissed the profits they got from the success of the P365 and its variants.


You think they spent the entirety of their profit for years of pistol sales on a catalog?


----------------------------

Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter"

Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time.
 
Posts: 19605 | Location: SE PA | Registered: January 12, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
still exist
posted Hide Post
Wait, there's nothing in .40 anyplace in the catalog??? Did I miss seeing it, or is this really true?

.40 was all the rage not that long ago.


----------------------
Let's Go Brandon!
 
Posts: 9805 | Location: The Beaver State | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
.40 was all the rage not that long ago.
So was the Macarena but you don't see that anymore, either.

 
Posts: 98033 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of iron chef
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH:
Nobody but nobody in the past 50 years in the business world has thought that having lots of models and variants is a winning strategy.

Except that it often has been. Usually it depends on how costly & labor-intensive it is to offer variations of the same product. For a car or all-metal gun, it's relatively expensive. For things like apparel, shoes, pens, shampoo... it's relatively inexpensive. Look at Nike, Papermate, Ikea, P&G, Frito-Lay, Casio - you don't think they've succeeding in the marketplace by offering lots of models & variants?
 
Posts: 2575 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hahaha, I forgot about that Macarena dance. People got right up and hit the dance floor. It was hilarious. Some took it real serious as if they were pros, I’m sure alcohol was involved.
 
Posts: 4952 | Location: west 'by god' virginia | Registered: May 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH:

That does raise an eyebrow. Only someone in Marketing loves a 200 page catalog. Isn't there someone to reign them in. Nobody but nobody in the past 50 years in the business world has thought that having lots of models and variants is a winning strategy.

It's too bad. They just pissed the profits they got from the success of the P365 and its variants.


You think they spent the entirety of their profit for years of pistol sales on a catalog?


Think past the catalog. Think about the costs associated with inventory for each pistol SKU; not just the cost tied up in the materials but the cost of managing the different parts storing them, keeping track, ordering, processing engineering changes. Think of the many different manufacturing lines to produce a pistol SKU or the break down / set up costs when changing from one product SKU to different product SKU. Think of the added staff required to oversee the number of different SKUs.

I'm in Supply Chain Management so I understand the impact of too many product SKUs; a 200 page catalog would be an indication of how many SKUs they have. Just for clarity, SKU stands for Stock Keeping Unit, which is a unique identifier for an item that can be sold to a customer. A gun in black is one SKU and an FDE is a second SKU. If you sell either gun with iron sights or a red dot, you have 4 SKUs. Threaded or non-threaded barrel? You doubled your SKUs to 8.

Here's one of many articles a quick google search gave: HOW MANY SKU’S IS TOO MANY?

They bring up Toys R Us as being killed by having too many products. I remember Mervyns the department store; every time we went through it, it was full of different stuff that not enough people wanted.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 17492 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by iron chef:
quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH:
Nobody but nobody in the past 50 years in the business world has thought that having lots of models and variants is a winning strategy.

Except that it often has been. Usually it depends on how costly & labor-intensive it is to offer variations of the same product. For a car or all-metal gun, it's relatively expensive. For things like apparel, shoes, pens, shampoo... it's relatively inexpensive. Look at Nike, Papermate, Ikea, P&G, Frito-Lay, Casio - you don't think they've succeeding in the marketplace by offering lots of models & variants?


I would argue with you that shoes, pens, potato chips are still the same product despite how they look or taste. They don't have to re-engineer anything or develop different manufacturing lines for each variant. They simply adjust a few things to change the look or the taste but it's still basically the same production line with minor tooling changes. With shoes, pens, potato chips, sodas, and such, the biggest cost of goods driver is the factory overhead tied up in the plant machinery, not in the materials that go into the product. The way to lower the cost of goods sold in such an environment is to produce as much volume in order to spread the total plant cost over many units. The more units, the less the cost of goods per unit and the higher the profit margin.

So you look at a bag of potato chips and guess how much the chips inside plus the bag cost compared to the cost of the factory and its machinery. Then you can look at a gun and guess the cost of the materials in that gun compared to that factory and its machinery. Even without knowing the costs, it's easy to see that you'll quickly reach the point of the number of guns produced where the cost of materials in the guns produced is equal to the cost of producing them compared to the point where the cost of materials in bags of chips produced is equal to the cost of producing them.

And, even then, Frito Lays, Nike, etc. all of them regularly go through a product portfolio evaluation regularly and they tend to keep the number of SKUs flat instead of ever growing.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 17492 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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.40 products have been unavailable from SIG for two years now. They offered .40 P226s and P229s during the height of COVID (summer 2020), only to cancel all such orders from any dealer (like us) who had the nerve to actually order any of them. The "official" word was all .40S&W and 357SIG pistol production was put 'temporary' hold because of the overwhelming demand for 9mm pistols. Guess after all this time someone finally decided to revise the catalog to reflect what the digital Excel order spreadsheets have been saying since late 2020?

quote:
...200+ page catalog...

Wow. One might think that Newington is now offering over/under shotguns, straight-pull rifles, gun safes, camo blind stools and rearview mirror air fresheners. Browning better watch out; there's a new mega gun catalog on the prowl.

FWIW, SIG shipped us some SIGPros a couple of months ago, so at least for three months of 2022 they were still coming out of SIG (though I didn't check any of their 'birthdays' on the boxes to see when they were actually made).


-MG
 
Posts: 1096 | Location: The commie, rainy side of WA | Registered: April 19, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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