Mower is breaking belts

November 09, 2020, 07:58 PM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by egregore:
I don't know much about mowers, but I know about belts. What does the belt drive? What type of belt? (vee, flat, cogged). What happens to the belt when it fails? Is it snapped clean in two? If snapped, do the ends look burnt and/or does the belt feel stiff for the first few inches on either side of the break? Delaminated? Shredded on the sides?

Belt drives three mower blades from a blade clutch in the rear.

5/8 v belt.

It cracks at the seams and then fails spectacularly with chunks of belt missing all around.

November 09, 2020, 08:07 PM

egregore

If there is no sign of oil contamination, it sounds like poor quality belts. Misalignment of pulleys causes shredding, seized pulleys cause the snapping in two.

November 09, 2020, 08:21 PM

doublesharp

In 2008 I bought a brand new Grasshopper 226 ztr and mine was one of the early production new models. I had trouble with belts from day one, mostly throwing them but I broke a couple or three. Dealer was a personal friend and was trying hard.

Turns out GH had gone with a kevlar idler pulley and when it got hot it would flex enough to throw the belt. Factory recall replaced kevlar pulley with a heavy steel one and my problem was solved.

November 10, 2020, 03:36 PM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by egregore:
If there is no sign of oil contamination, it sounds like poor quality belts. Misalignment of pulleys causes shredding, seized pulleys cause the snapping in two.

I've used Stens for years and have never had an issue. I can see a poor quality belt only lasting a year but 3 belts only lasting between 1 and 3 weeks has to be something else.

November 10, 2020, 07:17 PM

jigray3

Have you been using belts reinforced with Aramid or Kevlar? Any change in belt composition? Does your deck have a blade brake to check? Any belt guides bent or missing? Tried working the belt back and forth with mower off feeling for resistance, particularly under simulated clutch tension?

November 10, 2020, 07:36 PM

satch

Only use belts for the mower the maker uses. A few years ago a belt broke on the snow blower and used the number belt in the manual for car and other use
it broke after one use. Contact the maker for their belt.

November 11, 2020, 01:03 AM

flashguy

That mower is not the merrier.

flashguy

November 11, 2020, 06:44 AM

rbert0005

The first time I tried to cut the grass after we moved the belt burned up on my Deere.

One quick call to the dealer and a couple days later it was as good as new.

I didn't figure it was worth dicking around with it.

Bob

November 11, 2020, 09:12 AM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
Bent deck, spindles, idler pulley. If you don't see the issue, it's time for a trip to the dealer. This is your livelihood, correct? How much downtime can you afford tracking it down yourself?

I was trying to avoid this because all the local shops are two weeks out. The season will be over by then and I'm backed up already. However, it looks like I have no choice.

I really, really don't want to buy a $10,000 mower for 2 weeks of work. They won't stick them this late in the season anyway and it would be 2-3 weeks before I get it. I ran the backup yesterday but it takes 3.5 hours to do a 1 hour job. I'll never get done before the snow starts.

November 11, 2020, 09:23 AM

ensigmatic

Is it possible the idler tension has grown too weak? That might result in constant micro-slippage of the belt under load, increasing heat significantly, thus premature failure.

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher

November 11, 2020, 09:44 AM

Suppressed

If your belts last three weeks, just go buy a couple of extra belts and keep replacing them until the season is over. Even if they only last a couple of days it will still be worth it.

November 11, 2020, 10:47 AM

jimmy123x

quote:
Originally posted by Suppressed:
If your belts last three weeks, just go buy a couple of extra belts and keep replacing them until the season is over. Even if they only last a couple of days it will still be worth it.

This is what I'd do, for now try a different brand and just replace them for the next 3 weeks. Then take it to the dealer when the season is over......

I don't know your budget or how busy your business is, but it might makes sense to sell the back up, keep this one for a backup and replace it with a new one for next season.

November 14, 2020, 12:45 PM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Is it possible the idler tension has grown too weak? That might result in constant micro-slippage of the belt under load, increasing heat significantly, thus premature failure.

It's crazy tight right near the end of the idler action.

The dealer called today. They can't find anything wrong with it. I pick it up on Monday and I'll just put it back in service. I'll pick up a Toro brand belt while I'm there.

In the meanwhile I've been using the backup. It's a walk-behind with a sulky. I'm using long forgotten muscles.

November 14, 2020, 12:53 PM

ensigmatic

quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
It's crazy tight right near the end of the idler action.

Are you saying the belt is crazy tight and the idler arm is nearly fully-compressed (for lack of a better term)?

If so: That does not sound right to me. Belts should not be "crazy tight" and the idler arm should have a degree of freedom.

Is it possible you picked up the wrong replacement belt at some point and have been repeating the mistake?

quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
The dealer called today. They can't find anything wrong with it.

They're not looking hard enough or they're not putting the right guy on it. There has to be a reason this thing has all-of-a-sudden started chewing up belts.

November 14, 2020, 05:02 PM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
It's crazy tight right near the end of the idler action.

Are you saying the belt is crazy tight and the idler arm is nearly fully-compressed (for lack of a better term)?

If so: That does not sound right to me. Belts should not be "crazy tight" and the idler arm should have a degree of freedom.

Is it possible you picked up the wrong replacement belt at some point and have been repeating the mistake?

quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
The dealer called today. They can't find anything wrong with it.

They're not looking hard enough or they're not putting the right guy on it. There has to be a reason this thing has all-of-a-sudden started chewing up belts.

I cross checked the part number and had the shop do it, too. It's technically the correct belt but I did get them from Amazon. Who knows, they could be counterfeit or irregular or b-stock.

My bill is probably already $300. I'm not sure I want to trust another guy on it.

November 14, 2020, 05:31 PM

OKCGene

^^^^^^^ Did the belt come from Amazon directly or from someone else selling through Amazon?

If it’s someone else selling through Amazon I’d bet it’s a counterfeit part.

November 14, 2020, 06:26 PM

ensigmatic

Is there a reason you don't just order an OEM belt from an authorized dealer? I mean, hell, Mark, I don't even use my commercial mower for a lawn service, but I wouldn't be buying replacement parts for it off Amazon.

November 14, 2020, 07:19 PM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Is there a reason you don't just order an OEM belt from an authorized dealer? I mean, hell, Mark, I don't even use my commercial mower for a lawn service, but I wouldn't be buying replacement parts for it off Amazon.

The locals don't stock them. Never had a problem before this. I order a new one as soon as I use the spare.

November 14, 2020, 07:20 PM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by OKCGene:
^^^^^^^ Did the belt come from Amazon directly or from someone else selling through Amazon?

If it’s someone else selling through Amazon I’d bet it’s a counterfeit part.

Depends on the order. I go to my history and click buy again and it's never come from the same place.

November 15, 2020, 10:16 AM

sadlerbw

This might seem silly, but we actually have more luck buying mower parts from eBay rather than Amazon. It has been easier to avoid questionable sellers for some reason.

- Bret