I grew up in that area and shoveled snow off the seats in the old stadium for extra cash as a teenager.
After large companies like Bethlehem Steel and the Ford Stamping plant left the area, over time, Erie county has become one of the poorest in the State.

I just don't agree with public funding for these stadiums, there are a couple of other teams planning new stadiums as well. There was no vote on that from the public that I know of.

Quote:
Buffalo Bills’ new $2.1 billion stadium ushers in new era for NFL owners
The cost of doing business with the NFL is changing drastically.
Jun 25, 2026 10:34 AM EDT.

This week, the Buffalo Bills celebrated the start of a new era for the team at the ribbon-cutting for the team’s new Highmark Stadium.
After 53 years in Orchard Park, the old stadium began being demolished in May. Across the street, the $2.1 billion new stadium will have its first scheduled event, a team scrimmage, on August 8, and fans will be able to fill the stadium for NFL games starting with the Bills’ preseason matchup against the Carolina Panthers on August 15.

While the new stadium is shiny and new, it remains to be seen whether it can bring the same atmosphere as its predecessor.

The new Highmark Stadium will only hold about 60,000 fans compared to the old stadium, which had nearly 12,000 more seats. That scarcity will invariably mean higher prices for the average Bills fan, while necessities like parking and concessions are also likely to be more expensive.

When the former stadium was built in 1973, it had a capacity of over 80,000. However, since the late 90s, thousands of seats were removed to make room for luxury and club seating.
The Bills weren’t the only team to make that move. In fact, numerous NFL stadiums have reduced capacity over the years to accommodate the more lucrative seating and the higher ticket prices they bring.
But when a stadium is publicly funded, like the one in Buffalo, moves like that come off as ungrateful.Buffalo Bills fans pay hefty price for new stadium.

Despite being worth $9.3 billion, Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pegula received the largest taxpayer subsidy in NFL history to build his new stadium. The Bills received $850 million in subsidies, including $600 million from New York state and another $250 million from Erie County taxpayers.
The NFL and Bills only paid $550 million. Bills fans kicked in another $263 million through personal seat licences.

Personal seat licenses are fees fans pay for the right to buy season tickets. The tickets cost more money on top of the PSL, but the PSL guarantees you an opportunity to purchase the extended ticket plans.
If PSLs seem like a raw deal to you, then you don’t understand NFL fandom. Buffalo Bills fans gladly brave inhospitable winter weather every season to watch a franchise that has never won a Super Bowl. Wealthier fans will have no issue forking over the dough.

So to recap: New York state taxpayers helped pay for the stadium. Erie County taxpayers helped pay for the stadium and Bills fans themselves helped pay for it through PSLs, and what they get in return is fewer seats and higher prices.
And it’s not like this situation is unique to Buffalo.

NFL builds new stadiums on the backs of taxpayers
When I said that the Bills received the wealthiest taxpayer subsidy in NFL history, that wasn’t completely accurate. They had received the wealthiest subsidy ever at the time the deal was announced for them to build the new stadium. But since then, there have been numerous teams that have surpassed them.
Kansas City, Kansas, recently committed to giving the Chiefs up to $1.8 billion in public funding for a new $3 billion facility. Indiana lawmakers have approved an incentive package worth over $1 billion in taxpayer funds to lure the Chicago Bears across state lines to a new home in Hammond.

Meanwhile, the Bears appear to be using that offer as leverage while holding out for a better deal in Illinois. While it seems like the team has closed the book on staying in Chicago, the Bears are reportedly asking for $855 million in public infrastructure funding along with significant property tax breaks to move to Arlington Heights, Illinois.

Tennessee also surpassed Buffalo, approving $1.26 billion in public funding for a new $2.2 billion stadium in Nashville.

The Washington Commanders also have plans to move back to their ancestral home in Northeast Washington D.C., with DC residents committing over $1 billion to the $3.7 billion project. The Commanders’ stadium is expected to have a capacity of 65,000. At its peak in the early 2000’s, the team’s current home held more than 90,000 people.

Once again, NFL teams are using higher prices, more taxpayer money, and PSLs to fund projects for billionaire owners who threaten to leave (or actually do leave, as was the case with the Raiders, Rams and Chargers) if they don’t get their way.
And while it seems like a raw deal for fans and the citizens who don’t even like or watch football, it has become the cost of doing business with the NFL in the 21st century.
On social media, Bears fans are at DEFCON 1 over the team potentially moving to Indiana, with many Illinois residents placing the blame on the mayor and the governor for the move, not the billionaires making the threats.

As long as fans are willing to pay the freight, the NFL and its owners have no reason to change their tactics.
Smaller stadiums, exorbitant PSL licensing fees and higher ticket prices seem to be the wave of the future. But nothing lasts forever, including NFL fans’ tolerance for corporate greed.
End Quote.

https://lindyssports.com/nfl/b...w-era-for-nfl-owners

America is in an abusive relationship with the NFL.
St. Louis has been jilted twice by our ex lovers the Cardinals and the Rams.

I have grown tired of pro football. I no longer watch. It’s all injury lottery for who makes the Super Bowl.

I will say this on this topic, all northern teams should have domed stadiums but the owners should pay for them or sell to someone who can.

Yeah, Seems the world is supposed to revolve around football and beer (I don't care for either).

Indoctrinated tribalism is the best marketing gimmick of them all.

Dumb question because I really don't watch football, how many games do they play in the stadium.
I know other events can happen in them but who benefits from the revenue generated from non football related events and how much use is there for non football events.

Eight home games for the Bills this year. I was at the Fleetwood Mac concert at the old stadium back in 1978.
Over the years I suspect it was used for many pay to attend shows but I don't know if Erie county profits from the rental of it.

Until a year ago I lived 15 minutes from the stadium. My business sat right behind it, I could see the scoreboard from my parking lot. Buffalo is a blue collar working class town and a huge football town and the working class fans got hosed with the new stadium. They priced Joe Average out of his seats in the new house. Kathy Hochul's up for reelection, her home town is one town over from the stadium and the Bill's owner is a Hochul campaign donor.

quote:

Originally posted by HK Ag:
I have grown tired of pro football. I no longer watch. It’s all injury lottery for who makes the Super Bowl.

I will say this on this topic, all northern teams should have domed stadiums but the owners should pay for them or sell to someone who can.

No Superbowls will be hosted at the new stadium, no Dome on it.
I do believe a lot of people like watching the snow games tv though. The worst games for the fans were 36 degrees and heavy rain/wind.
The new stadium does have more cover over the seats.

Simply playing Devil’s Advocate here but asking an honest question.
I see articles like this all the time about many different sports teams and other entertainment venues that receive public funding of some sort.
Let’s say no funding is given and the Bills leave the state entirely, how much tax revenue would be lost for the State of New York and the City of Buffalo and the County it is in?
How many individual jobs would be lost?
Is it possible that while the number seems staggering that in the end it’s actually a good thing?

Honest question.

On to my Bill’s Story I am a Bengals fan and was a season ticket holder for many years. I was fortunate enough to attend the Bengals vs Bills playoff game in 2023 in Buffalo.
Let me tell you it was an ABSOLUTE DELIGHT!!! The Buffalo fans were awesome! We literally parked in some dude’s front yard and walked through a residential neighborhood packed with Buffalo tailgaters that welcomed us who were decked out in full Bengals gear! Every yard every tailgate folks were welcoming offering us food and drink! It was great. After the game even after we beat you all folks were awesome, yelling “we are all Bengals fans now” as we were set to play the Chiefs.

To follow it up we went Kansas City the next weekend for the Bengals vs Chiefs playoff game and while no one was nasty no one was welcoming either also Arrowhead tailgating is pretty boring it’s all just in a concrete jungle.

quote:

Originally posted by HK Ag:
I will say this on this topic, all northern teams should have domed stadiums but the owners should pay for them or sell to someone who can.

Why?

quote:

NFL builds new stadiums on the backs of taxpayers

Where are the hedge funds and venture capitalists? Is building/investing in an NFL stadium such a bad risk they stay away and need taxpayer money? Average taxpaying Joe gets nothing from this and his property taxes probably go up. No sports stadium should ever involve taxpayer money.

quote:

Let’s say no funding is given and the Bills leave the state entirely, how much tax revenue would be lost for the State of New York and the City of Buffalo and the County it is in?
How many individual jobs would be lost?
Is it possible that while the number seems staggering that in the end it’s actually a good thing?

Honest question.

The Governor of the State of Missouri made a big pitch, and the State legislature put together a big package of tax incentives to keep the Chiefs in Kansas City. The State of Kansas gave them more.... so the Chiefs are going to move to Kansas.

In the short term, this may be a good thing for Kansas, and a bad thing for Missouri. However, in the longer term (like 20 years) I don't really think these sorts of subsidies are good for anyone. It's always welfare for billionaires, at the expense of the individual taxpayers.

Looking back at the deal which funded the Rams domed stadium, which was paid for 50% by the State, 25% by the County, and 25% by the City of St. Louis. In the short term, the shiny new stadium and the Rams seemed good for the City of St. Louis. It was a 20 year commitment, and at the end of 20 years, they left. In the long run, it's a huge drain on the State, the County, and the City.

What could stop it?

I guess it would have to be at the federal level. The NFL has an anti-trust exemption from the federal government. That should be repealed, at a minimum.

But beyond that, I'm not sure how you would keep the NFL owners from holding a gun to the head of their city and pitting one city or State against another.

Green Bay has a great model, for the city, and for the fans. They actually own the team.
The NFL owners would never allow that model to happen again.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
Simply playing Devil’s Advocate here but asking an honest question.
I see articles like this all the time about many different sports teams and other entertainment venues that receive public funding of some sort.
Let’s say no funding is given and the Bills leave the state entirely, how much tax revenue would be lost for the State of New York and the City of Buffalo and the County it is in?
How many individual jobs would be lost?
Is it possible that while the number seems staggering that in the end it’s actually a good thing?

Honest question.

I did some AI research and there is no cut and dry answer either way, that tells me it can't be a super money maker for the county.
I would say they would be better off repairing roads and bridges with the workforce.
I copied this off a AI answer:

Economic Impact: Proponents vs. Independent Economists
The debate over whether Erie County would suffer catastrophic losses if the Bills left depends entirely on which economic model is used.1.

The Pro-Stadium Argument

(State/Local Projections)According to official state analyses and reports from Empire State Development, the Bills are an essential regional economic driver:Annual Direct Revenue: The franchise directly generates $27 million annually in combined income and tax revenues specifically split among New York State, Erie County, and the city of Buffalo.Regional
Spending: Over the lifetime of their 30-year lease,
the team is projected to generate more than $1.6 billion in direct revenue and over $385 million in annual regional economic activity.Job Creation: The construction phase employed over 6,000 union workers, and regular operations sustain roughly 1,800 full-time equivalent jobs in hospitality, stadium services, and retail.

AI Mode Conversation: Erie County would lose millions in annual economic activity, sales tax revenue, and local business income if the Buffalo Bills left the region, though independent economists frequently debate whether team-generated tax revenues truly offset massive public infrastructure investments.Economic and Tax LossesDirect and Indirect Revenue: State and local economic impact estimates indicate that the franchise generates significant yearly revenue, bringing in approximately “$27M annually in direct income for New York, Erie County, and Buffalo” alongside hundreds of millions in wider area spending.Local Businesses: Hospitality, hotels, restaurants, and retail establishments in Erie County rely heavily on game-day crowds, tailgating, and out-of-town visitors during the NFL season.Public Investment and Current CommitmentsCapital Outlays: Erie County committed “$250 million” toward the construction of the new Highmark Stadium under a 30-year lease agreement.Cost Relief: Under the arrangement for the new facility, ownership transitions largely to the state, and Erie County has exited direct ownership and future operational/maintenance responsibilities for the stadium, which county officials noted saves millions in ongoing upkeep that the county used to shoulder under older legacy terms.adium services, and retail.2.


The Independent Economist Argument (The Consensus View)Decades of peer-reviewed research by independent sports economists—including comprehensive summaries by The Brookings Institution and the Center for Economic Accountability—paint a completely different picture.
They argue that local governments almost never see a positive net return on stadium investments for several reasons:The Substitution Effect: If the Bills left, local families would not stop spending money. Instead of spending $200 on game tickets and tailgating in Orchard Park, they would spend that exact same money on local concerts, movies, restaurants, or other regional businesses. Therefore, the "lost" economic activity is mostly redistributed within the local economy rather than completely vanishing.Low Direct Utility:
NFL stadiums sit dark and empty for the vast majority of the year. For a stadium hosting only 10 to 11 home games annually (including pre-season), independent research shows a median facility generates only about $11 million a year for surrounding businesses—a fraction of the public money used to build it.


Due to excessive costs for the stadium I would say That Buffalo would be better off if the Bills left, it's on a 30yr lease plan (with the NFL?, I'm not sure), somebody is collecting on a 30yr lease.

Our stadium is being redone. Construction has started and in 2027 the Jaguars will play in Orlando with the new stadium opening for the 2028 season.

The Jaguars and the city are splitting the cost with the Jags being responsible for all cost overruns.

Keep in mind that the city owns the stadium and leases it to the team. The city covers maintenance while the team covers improvements like the new video boards, locker rooms, and such. The city hosts other events throughout the year there from concerts to monster truck shows and college football games.

I don’t know what the economic impact of having a NFL team is but spending tax dollars to have a team a big part of it.

The first time I lived in Houston, they were just wrapping up a stadium replacement phase and built all of this between 2000 and 2002:

Astros moved out of Astrodome to downtown

Rockets moved out of their sad stadium (literal wood bleachers), sold it to Joel Oesteen, and moved downtown a few blocks from Astros

Texans got a new stadium in same parking lot as Astrodome.

State law prevented property taxes to pay for those 3 stadiums so they levied a hotel occupancy tax, and car rental tax. Those taxes are still in place 24 to 26 years later as they still owe $595.7 million out of the original $2.1 billion. In other words, those two taxes along with a cut of parking and ticket sales and the debt isn't paid off despite the stadiums being old enough to need renovations.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tatortodd,

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

quote:

Originally posted by rizzle:
I grew up in that area and shoveled snow off the seats in the old stadium for extra cash as a teenager.

In buffalo that was a summer job!

quote:

we went Kansas City the next weekend for the Bengals vs Chiefs playoff game and while no one was nasty

Attend a game in Baltimore (or Philly), and you might encounter some of that nastiness you're looking for. You won't even have to go into the stadium.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
Yeah, Seems the world is supposed to revolve around football and beer (I don't care for either).

Indoctrinated tribalism is the best marketing gimmick of them all.

I think that culture is dying off, honestly. At least with football. Maybe I'm wrong and the numbers don't support that claim, but at least in my circles, football isn't the cultural touchstone it was in the 80's and 90's.

My father's side of the family all come from Buffalo and he was a big Bills fan. My mother and sister are somehow, inexplicably still fans. I think it was last year at some point my mother was telling me they had a shot at the Super Bowl. I couldn't help myself. "They'll choke. They always choke. I think that's why dad drowned himself, he couldn't take it anymore and took the easy way out. Look at this way: At least this year, he doesn't have to suffer through it again." She was stunned, and after a few seconds had a laughing fit that I was concerned would have her joining him. Sure enough, they fucking choked, and he was spared from having to live through it yet again. That was the most entertainment I've gotten from the Buffalo Bills since they lost their fourth Super Bowl in a row.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
Simply playing Devil’s Advocate here but asking an honest question.
I see articles like this all the time about many different sports teams and other entertainment venues that receive public funding of some sort.
Let’s say no funding is given and the Bills leave the state entirely, how much tax revenue would be lost for the State of New York and the City of Buffalo and the County it is in?
How many individual jobs would be lost?
Is it possible that while the number seems staggering that in the end it’s actually a good thing?

Honest question.

On to my Bill’s Story I am a Bengals fan and was a season ticket holder for many years. I was fortunate enough to attend the Bengals vs Bills playoff game in 2023 in Buffalo.
Let me tell you it was an ABSOLUTE DELIGHT!!! The Buffalo fans were awesome! We literally parked in some dude’s front yard and walked through a residential neighborhood packed with Buffalo tailgaters that welcomed us who were decked out in full Bengals gear! Every yard every tailgate folks were welcoming offering us food and drink! It was great. After the game even after we beat you all folks were awesome, yelling “we are all Bengals fans now” as we were set to play the Chiefs.

To follow it up we went Kansas City the next weekend for the Bengals vs Chiefs playoff game and while no one was nasty no one was welcoming either also Arrowhead tailgating is pretty boring it’s all just in a concrete jungle.

quote:

Originally posted by HK Ag:
I will say this on this topic, all northern teams should have domed stadiums but the owners should pay for them or sell to someone who can.

Why?

as someone who lived most of his life ( minus military time and now the last decade or so in AZ) in the Buffalo region ( my first apartment I could hear the screaming crowd on game days) Buffalo’s slogan “ the city of good neighbors” is 100% true. Great people suffering under communist dictatorship- most of the state has close to zero in common with NYC which unfortunately drives all political power and decision making. Much of NY state is very rural and agricultural ( you in a lot of parts of the state might think you are in West Virginia or Kentucky actually)
Western New Yorkers are hardy salt of the earth people would would give you the shirt of their backs. With every year though the noose tightens and makes it harder to live there, despite the great people

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:

quote:

NFL builds new stadiums on the backs of taxpayers

Where are the hedge funds and venture capitalists? Is building/investing in an NFL stadium such a bad risk they stay away and need taxpayer money? Average taxpaying Joe gets nothing from this and his property taxes probably go up. No sports stadium should ever involve taxpayer money.

I couldn’t agree more. It’s such a fucking scam. A billionaire wants public funding from taxpayers for a new stick and ball stadium? Mother fucker fund the thing yourself. Finance it. Get your rich friends to go in with you. Unless the taxpayers, who get taxed to build a NFL stadium, get a monthly check, a portion of the profits, then the answer should be fuck you. If you invest in a decent savings account, at least you get a %. 401k. Buying a home, the value goes up. How in the world do taxpayers get taxed and get zero % of the profits? Hell they don’t even get discounted season tickets or individual games.

We have 2 new stadiums that will be built. Thank God Jerry World is in Arlington, over an hour away (with no traffic) and not in my county. 1 of the new stadiums is for the Mavericks and thank God they are going to put it in Dallas county. Then they are going to build a new stadium for the Stars, and that will be in my county but not my city so the fuckers that own the team will be getting taxpayer $ from the city it’s going in, and not the whole county.

Another benefit when I can move to my rural land = no stadiums to ever be concerned with, ever.

quote:

It’s such a fucking scam. A billionaire wants public funding from taxpayers for a new stick and ball stadium? Mother fucker fund the thing yourself. Finance it. Get your rich friends to go in with you. Unless the taxpayers, who get taxed to build a NFL stadium, get a monthly check, a portion of the profits, then the answer should be fuck you.

I couldn't agree more.

I just wonder who supports these scams?